MindmasterZero

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That's not a bad idea at all. The problem with Spectral Terror isn't that it does Fear. The problem is that with its base duration, you can keep 2-3 out without even slotting it...

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Might I point out, that Fearsome Stare costs 1/2 the endurance, recharges in 1/3 the time, affects a larger area, has a very significant debuff, and lasts 30 seconds. Thats right, it lasts twice as long as recharge... before hasten.

But hey, lets accept a weaker ST, because we're controllers and we're trained to be complacent wimps. The devs could serve you guys a poop sundae and you'd gobble it up, and urge everyone to keep quiet about the sprinkles...

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For all the ppl saying the 1 hour timer for this mission will make it too hard because of the AV really need to try the mission.

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Oh sure, its easy if you herd them up...

But you get a mob stuck in a tree (happens VERY frequently on my outdoor missions), and you are hosed. CoH has hands down the best guides and customer service I have ever seen in a MMOG, but they cant always guarantee a quick response to a bug mission.

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I think people misunderstand why developers interfere and make changes. I could care less how fast someone earns influence. But I am concerned when someone is doing somethingg "unfun" in order to gain levels quickly and thereby bypassing other, more interesting content. Admittedly, "fun" and "unfun" are completely subjective, so people can disagree.

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Only problem I have, is that it doesnt fix anything, and just puts a too short timer on a big mission with an AV in it. Wolves, after the boulder/disorient, werent really any better to herd than most other mobs. So will ALL maps have timers on them? Whats the point? People will just herd other stuff.

1 hour is too short to kill all wolves, click 15 glowies, and kill an AV. Id say the map now REQUIRES herding. Especially on an outdoor map. Ive had to petition a GM to come multiple times this last week ALONE to find that last mob.

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I hear ya ILL_CON, unfortunately people apparently never need to thin a crowd and can always lock down every single enemy they face already.

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Yes. Its called we're competent. The devs realized this, and changed the power from a crappy "run away" power to something useful. Then apparently decided some stupid hybrid version that swcatters things enough to make life difficult was the best way to go...

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Good old "Run Away!" ST is a life saver if there's more than you can lock, less because of the running and more because of the loss of LoS, aggro, and the extreme base fear duration.

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If it would have run, it would have cowered. 0 advantage. PROVE me wrong. Oh you little scatter monkies cant.

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I've been playing around with the "every other fear power" cone fear on my little 20 Dark/Elec, massive difference from ST. All other fears in the game are cone, single target, or melee and at least the Dark cone has a base duration of almost the base recharge.

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This is flat out a lie, or you are bugged. Fearsome stare lasts WELL beyond recharge.

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Plus you have to target, plus it costs just as much end, plus it's a narrower cone.

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Fearsome stare is a HUGE cone that costs negligable endurange. What power are you using? And I have to target it? Heaven forbid I rely on my AI vs a summoned pet's...

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In order to perma fear stuff with the normal fear powers you need probably to four slot the power.

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Funny, my base slot locks things down quite nicely with FS...

Yes, now people will herd other praetorian outdoor missions. "Wanna herd bums?" Thank god the "problem" was adressed, and the design team didnt cave to whiners on the board.

Really, was this even needed after the boulder disorient thing? Ive done the mission (which took over an hour, because mobs got stuck in treest btw...), after the addition of the disorient I dont think the wolves were THAT much different from many other mobs to warrant a change. Particularly one that will result in people failing the mission. Hell, at one hour, defeat all, finding 15 glowies and beating an AV... Id say it encourages herding to beat it in time...

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First 2 times, I forgot all about my ST, and my Flash Blinds. Didn't bother using them. We failed both times. (For one, the team of morons refused to closely defend the reactor). 5th and 6th waves relentlessy attack the reactor.

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If a controller plays terribly (ie, doesnt use their cc) on the reactor trial, Id expect to encounter "slight" difficulties too.

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So, 3rd time, I came up with the tactical plan. Attack baddies at the doors, while I, (the Controller) terrorizes anyone who gets to close to the reactor. We ran through the respec so easily it wasn't even funny. And we were lvl 30's at best at the time. So spectral terror is great when you use it accordingly.

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Does anyone actually know wh atthe other fear powers do? The EXACT same thing. mobs stop attacking, and cower in place. So if you want to protect something, they work just as well, if not better. Moreover, itsd easier to maintain such protection, because they are still grouped up for reapplication of fear before it wears off, as opposed to stumbling back one by one, making it HARDER to protect the object.

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but still we've all run into situations where we needed, sometimes desperately, mobs to run away from something.

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No. Such situations are purely in your head, because the alternative would be to have them fearlocked like... drumroll... EVERY other fear power.

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OK...guys are asking for what advantages ST has over other fear powers, and one guy asked how to avoid the alpha strike after casting it:

Unlike ALL the other fear-based powers, it is effectively a persistant AREA OF EFFECT power. This means that, to avoid alphas, you simply cast it AROUND A CORNER. Got that? you and your phantoms are standing around a corner, and you toss ST right into the middle of the mobs. Then you and your pets/group simply pick off anything that runs your way.


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Thats pretty weak compared to other fear powers. Though kudos on thinking of a way to make a near useless effect semi worth the endurance to throw out. Use fearsome stare for a bit. Theres no return fire when the mob is feared (ie, no such thing as an apha). You should easily be able to get the drop on enemies to dump this on them. Fearsome stare lasts so long, controls SUCH a massive area, and uses so little endurance, I really dont see the need to tack a problem on spectral terror...

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Gee maybe flash was already used and recharging?

As for spec terror, It has saved my team on a few occasions. But I still wanted a change. This change they are proposing now that I think about it more just might make it lots worse heh (hard to imagine). I am not a fan of scatter simply because my character already creates an enormous amount of scatter and any more is just not needed heh. However as an oh crap button it did do that job semi ok, except that half of them run far enough away and pull out a gun hehe.

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Thank you for proving how inferior it is to every other fear power. Would anyone else care to offer anecdotal evidence to support my position?

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The irony is that I used the power more on the respec trial (that I was using to get rid of ST) then I had used it in about 10 lvls heh.

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Again, it performs this power less sucessfully than fearsome stare, terrify, or the presence pool fears.

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Hehe I never said it was more useful then any of the other fears. Actually I agree with you. I was simply stating my opinion on the power as it is on live server. Try quoting someone that is arguing againest your point...

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Gotcha, sorry for the confusion.

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Gee maybe flash was already used and recharging?

As for spec terror, It has saved my team on a few occasions. But I still wanted a change. This change they are proposing now that I think about it more just might make it lots worse heh (hard to imagine). I am not a fan of scatter simply because my character already creates an enormous amount of scatter and any more is just not needed heh. However as an oh crap button it did do that job semi ok, except that half of them run far enough away and pull out a gun hehe.

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Thank you for proving how inferior it is to every other fear power. Would anyone else care to offer anecdotal evidence to support my position?

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The irony is that I used the power more on the respec trial (that I was using to get rid of ST) then I had used it in about 10 lvls heh.

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Again, it performs this power less sucessfully than fearsome stare, terrify, or the presence pool fears.

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So why the double standard for ST? Why is it interior to all other fear powers, which provide equal or greater protection through cower/root? If the devs would come out and say "thats too powerful", then I could at least accept it.

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I think geko has said that making ST an instant lockdown power is too powerful, in the opinion of the devs, by virtue of changing it from when it practically was one.

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No, you are inferring that from him making it in its current and proopsed bad forms. Then again, blizzard is "the best" ae damage power in the game. Even though evidence doesnt support it as such.

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I'm not, nor did I ever, claim that ST is better than or the equal to FS or other fear powers. You're assuming that the devs were too stupid to give us better fear powers. It is equally likely simply they don't want us to have them, which is why they are tweaking ST so much.

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No, I'm assuming they dont know whats useful, and whats not. Hence annoying changes to stuff like freezing rain breaking taunt, when superior debuffs dont. If ST isnt inteded to be a decent lock down power, just ditch it. An AE run power, as they themselves indicated by changing fear, isnt viewed as useful by the majority of the coh fanbase.

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In any event, as I said before, there is a difference between stating the power is broken, and stating that other powers are better. The question is not whether another hypothetical power would be better - thats a question for the suggestion box. The question is does ST provide sufficient benefit that its worth taking over taking nothing at all - on average across all Illusion controllers. Individual controllers will of course probably disagree on this point.

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IMO, its not worth taking. And dont say nothing at all. its not like if you pass ST, you dont get another power in its place. IMO, and the majority of CoH players (as evidenced by datamining, and the decision to change fear in the first place), fear scatter is counterproductive. Hell, it even messes up ST's functioning, if some mobs are out of the fear, and not being re-feared when it activates again. I have yet to see one convincing example of why its useful over how every other fear power works. I see a lot of people trying to make do with a sub par power, and justify it so they dont feel foolish for taking it. Quite simply, the devs can make it something good, and should.

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So when you tell me that other fear powers would be better, that isn't especially meaningful to me, because I'm not approaching ST from the perspective of "am I getting what I deserve, oh lookie at what they have over there." There is no double standard, there is just the one standard of judging the power on its own, without comparisons to the other fear powers.

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I disagree. Remember when the disorients were removed from the level 32 blaster booms? What if after they changed it, they went back, and instead tacked on a self immobilize and a chance to hit yourself with the blast Nova. Thats how I feel about ST. They had it right, then borked it up in comparison to other fear powers, for seemingly little reason. What the other guy gets DOES bear mentioning, specifically because they are fear powers, and this fear power isnt working like the others.

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Look at the situation with knockback, where so many people think it is totally worthless, and so many other people think its invaluable. There are quite a lot of things in the game that a lot of people think is just plain self-evident, except it aint.

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Some people like knocking stuff around, no matter if kd would be better. Unfortunately, in general, KB vs KD offers very little advantage, and can potentially create a problems, particularly for tankers/scrappers (hence their removal/change) and IMO for controllers (holds/debuffs work better if everything is close). For a blaster, KB can provide valuable defense. Now, if mobs buffed each other, or if there was a good reason to throw things around more, Id be all about scatter. But until then, scatter is pretty much counter productive. Herding/ae is still, unfortunately, the fastest way to level. I've always been a firm believer in good tradeoffs in playstyles, and right now, the trade is pretty poor for scattering. Id actually PREFER they design mobs and content geared to adding value towards both clumping and spreading, but until then, I'm pretty firmly against scattering.

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Why do people hate powers that they can't just mindlessly spam out all the time?

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Why do people defend powers that just flat out are suckier than others of its type? Good for you, you found a sue for Spectral Terrible. Another fear power would have worked just as well. There is no "safe zone" advantage over other fears. you can rest in the middle of cowering mobs. There is no "object protection" advantage to sending them running over any other fear power. Cowering mobs do NOT attack protection objectives. There is no "thinning out" advantage over any other fear power. The cowering mobs are out of the fight unless attacked, in which case they sometimes retaliate. If you have single target attacks, there is no difference, you'll be cutting them down one at a time. If you want to use AE attacks, you dont want scattering. There is only potential disadvantages to scattering. They might not occur every fight, or at all for you. But there is no comparative benefit to scattering to warrant the potential drawbacks.

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i agree with this person. I think of spectral terror as an "oh crap" the phantom army did its aggro thing, and we are getting over-whelmed (kind of like fire rain, and ice rain). Hay wife, drop spectral terror please to save our butts.

and like i said before, it doesnt really scatter the bosses unless i turn on my cloak of fear, at which point, everyone scatters, but also cant hit much of anything either.

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Why isnt your wife using flash?

More importantly... and guys... please... TRY and follow this. The effect that EVERY other fear power does... the duck and cover effect... works JUST as well to keep you alive. What is so special about spectral terror that it needs to be worse, and scatter, when every other fear power produces this duck and cover?

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No this is not true...only certain powers have crits.... Like blind is a Mag 3 hold it also has a mag 1 hold that hits 20% of the time so you can say it is mag 3 hold that is mag 4 20% of the time. There are others like this. But it is by no means in all sets and all AT's.

The above statement was not meant to say that only mez powers have crits I was just using a particular mez power as an example.

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Again, thats a controller power. I would hope anyoen posting here is aware that controllers can get crit holds to hold a boss in 1 shot. I however, was questioning whether or not a boss normalyl takes a crit fear to be feared. I dont think they do. As for defenders getting crit holds, I believe geko said only controllers (and not defenders, blasters, or anyone else) can get crit holds to hold a boss in 1 shot.

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Okay, I'm thinking, just from a RolePlaying perspective, ST should cause scatter. Just thinking about the actual name of the power 'Spectral Terror '. From my point of view, I would tremble in fear , and flee in terror . Just a poetic word thing.

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From a role playing perspective, I should be able to open a door with my superstrength tanker. Or at least not get shoved by a pedestrian. Throw RP out the window, the rest of the game does. Moreover, this was what the old fear did, and it was relatively useless. Datamining showed it was rarely taken, and players didnt like it. Hence fear was changed. Have you ever heard the expression "paralyzed with fear"? Apply it here.

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Fear works just like any other hold. AV's have a high resistance to it with their triangles up, Bosses require two hits to cower (unless there's a crit)

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Can dark defenders get fear crits? Because Ive feared bosses in one shot before.

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Yes, all AT's have a 5% chance of hitting for a critical, except for Scrappers who have a higher chance.

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Can anyone else confirm this? I know for a fact its not true on damage. Moreover, I so routinely fear bosses in one shot, I dont think its just a 5% chance...

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Fear works just like any other hold. AV's have a high resistance to it with their triangles up, Bosses require two hits to cower (unless there's a crit)

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Can dark defenders get fear crits? Because Ive feared bosses in one shot before.

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but if i am fighting a boss, that means they arent trying to kill me.

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Bosses can be hit with the cower thing on fearsome stare too. I would hope that a controller could lock down the boss afterwards, removing the threat without any of the annoyance of chasing it...

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In the case of illusionists, causing abject terror and forcing them to run off. In the case of the other sets (and flash), its forcing the bad guys to stay in one spot and not do anything.

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This serves no purpose in comparison to other fear powers, and only has potential drawbacks.

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People sure like to pick apart peoples posts.

I was in no way comparing ST to blind in my previous post. I am very away that a hold is better than fear. And that you can also hold a monster by spaming holds.

That being said, my intention was to show that with ST as the way it was with I3 makes Illusion too powerful.(thus the change) And that the whole reason they have enemies flee is so the power has a drawback and to make it so it's not just a rip off of another power. This was all I was trying to say.

All of this is of course just my personal opinion.

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I personally disagree that illusion was "too powerful" but showing how a level 26 power situationally can be used in place of a level 1 power hardly proves anything.

Actually its still not as good as the level 1 power in that situation...

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I used to hold baby Krakens by myself with ST....Although I don't know if that was before or after the revert back to running patch.


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Funny. I hold them with 1-2 blinds. They never, ever break free, and are big fat exp punching bags. A blaster and I duod them.

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ST is awesome for respec mission. I drop one or two of those things on the core and it never gets touched. On the lvl 44 respec, the Rikti would tport right to the core and just stand there, or run off. Yes, it might have been a pain to chase some of them down but I have not failed a respec mission when I have had one sitting on the core.

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If they were cowering in place as ANY OTHER fear power would have them do, the reactor would never get touched either. Stop perpetuating this silly myth. The supposed "flee/safe zone advantage" is only in your head. There is no advantage to fleeing ANY distance. There definately is a disadvantage.

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finally found a decent use of ST...we were fighting de's on a train mission. with me as the only healer with rad aura(which dont make me a healer atal) it was taking us awile to take down mobs.

not only that our lowest lev member was our highest damage dealer,which means,he was taking more damage then he was causing. and he was causing more damage then we were taking.

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And how is this preferrable to what EVERY other fear power does? Which is make the bees cower and allow you to defeat them at your leisure...

Oh wait. But you need to make them run away instead of locking them down.

If you all had used any other fear power, you would realize how weak ST is in comparison...

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Let me put it this way: Dark defenders LOVE Fearsome Stare. Yes, it draws aggro (one shot), but it lasts long enough to be perma-applied on most groups. In other words, as a fear, it's a nice long-term lockdown power.


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They actually dont retaliate when they get hit with FS, or when you reapply the fear.

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You said: *Controlling -con mobs. Sheesh.*

Now you are the one who's high.

I can only assume that you are solo only. That you never team up and if you are in a super group, you don't help out your lower level brethren. Because if you do, and you have team mates who are 1-3 levels below you and they get jumped do you tell them "You're on your own boys, it is beneath me to bother with -con mobs. Let me know if you need a rez!"


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Are you for some reason not using your phants? Because they'll one shot anything that low...We're not talking controlling mobs equal level to you with some lower level players around, we're talking controlling -1 or lower mobs. Otherwise known as gnats to eb swatted down. I dont even typically hold +2-+3's in groups...

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If ST worked the way geko is saying it is going to be changed to, then this strategy would have been reasonable from 26 to 32 (pre phantasms) for ill/rad:

1. Set up near the spawn point
2. Hit a good center target with RI
3. Hit the anchor with blind
4. Cast the PA at the anchor

then

5. Cast it into the group just prior to the PA evaporating.

Let it lock everyone down while you wait for PA to recharge.

or

5. Cast it on yourself (make sure the group is slightly out of range of the terrify)

When the PA expires, instead of having to run for it (or even if you do) the ST will act to kick them back a bit. Also, in larger groups runners do escape from PA aggro - especially in overlapping groups.

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Why the hell would I want to do this vs the standard fear lockdown that other fear powers have? This whole safe zone thing is pure garbage. I can rest in a group of mobs I hit with fearsome stare. Protecting an object? Again, fearsome stare stops all attacks. If they would have run, they will cower, producing the exact same effect, but without any annoying scatter.



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Especially in squishier groups, having the foes run a bit and then cower might be useful - hitting them with blind when they've rushed the blasters is also good, but then they stay held still in the middle of the squishies, when I would rather they run a bit forward, where they are more easier to keep track of.

It would be nice if the fear component of ST extended to higher level mobs, but that is not the same thing as saying its broken unless it does. I'm sure there are people who wish that SW didn't heal back, but thats just how it works. Evaporating damage is never "helpful" either, but that's life.

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So why the double standard for ST? Why is it interior to all other fear powers, which provide equal or greater protection through cower/root? If the devs would come out and say "thats too powerful", then I could at least accept it. But its like they dont get whats actually useful in the game (ie, claiming scattering on blizzard is good control).

If mobs had aura buffs like leadership, shadowfall, steaming mist etc then you mgiht not want them bunched up, but very few do (none i can think of aside from Dev Earth).