Mieux

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Gotcha. So story arcs should not be soloable, natch.

[/ QUOTE ] lol..you've been hoisted by your own petard. In the 40's, many story arcs contain AV's so they are not soloable now are they?

Let's also walk over to the Frostfire and Cavern of Trans story arcs which are also not soloable (by all but a few builds) if taken at the proper level. Though I know a lot of people can solo a FF that cons yellow or white, no one can do the Cavern arc solo can they?

I got /tell from a scrapper trying to solo Malaise in a Striga arc...gues that's not soloable either is it?

So clearly the game is not designed to allow you to see all the content as a solo player. As a blaster I don't expect to see all the content of THE solo AT. I am not saying that is fair or 'right' I'm saying that this should be the expectation based on the games design.

It's easy to sit here and run off at the mouth saying everyone should be able to solo everything and all AT's should be balanced...

It's quite another to actually understand what that means and its impact to the game. I dont' think the vast majority of posters have that understanding. Why? Because not even the devs have an infallible understanding.

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One thing I don't understand....say you get 3 missions in a row and they all have Elite Bosses or AV's..how do you drop them?


[/ QUOTE ] Right now....you team to defeat them. Which is probalby what they intended. The problem, as I already acknowleged, is that a hero should be able to drop a mission. I think it should come with a penalty, but nevertheless, the option should be there.

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Or do you just street hunt until you can get a team?

[/ QUOTE ] This brings up an interesting thought. Currently, when you take a misison, the mobs levels are determined based on the level you were when you got the mission, not when you actually enter it. I am wondering if this was put in for exactly the reason you've brought up. A hero finds that he or she is not strong enough to defeat X boss....they go out and train and acquire new powers and skill and come back and are finally able to defeat X boss. Certainly a valid approach to the world of super heroes.

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The challenge that there is now is fine. You're the person saying that there is no challege.


[/ QUOTE ] Let clean up that perception. Yes, I have often spouted that the game is too easy. Perhaps that is the wrong way to articulate it. Clearly you can go find something that can defeat you at any level. The problem in my mind is that the challenges aren't sophisticated enough.

Inversely varying accuracy for higher level mobs is legimate, but is lacking for creativity and pushed to the point where the player is actually challenged creates a precipitous situation which can involve more luck than skill. Most mobs require little or no real thought in defeating them. I believe the devs did try and create mobs that rewarded you for finding their mehcanism...but sadly, it is overshadowed by the undeniable success of straight brute force tactics in nearly all situations.

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Ordinarily I'd /ignore such a ridiculous assertion,

[/ QUOTE ] That's because you're completely misconstruing the assertion.

Every AT CAN can solo and that is their intent. It is NOT their intent that every AT can solo ALL their missions. This obviously true when you consider that AV's start showing up in story arcs.

"Solo" means you can log on and gain xp without needing to team. That did not change with the improved bosses, nor should it. Perhaps I confused the issue a little, but I said I didn't expect to solo "all my missions."

As far as controllers and tankers being able to solo bosses with little to zero risk, yup, that's a problem. However, the nature of this game makes solving the problem arguably impossible for everyone. The devs are forced to try and find some middle ground were some people can't solo them at all, most can barely do it, and some have literally no problem.

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That's why there is a "soloing" AT.

[/ QUOTE ] If you believe in such a thing, then there has to be something they can do that non-soloers can't. The devs must believe that letting everyone solo equally would hurt the game. Hard to know for certain, but I can see both sides of the argument. Most important to me is that all the AT's feel and play differently.

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This REMOVED a lot of tactics from boss-fights as far as blasters were concerned...

[/ QUOTE ] Interesting observation. But let's take it in context. Blasters are not supposed to be able to solo even level bosses, per the Statesman. The fact is that the game's current state is in conflict with a previously stated intention of the devs. When they attempted to fix it, people found it unacceptable. Now, as I've said before, I agree mainly because of how the missions work.

I have no problem with not being able to solo +1 bosses, but I do have a problem with not being able to dump a mission. We should be able to go to a contact (stool pigeon) and find out if a boss might be there etc and drop the mission if we know we don't want to fight bosses. Clearly the "defeat x mob" missions are designed to offer us some options, but I am not aware of many story arcs that can be completed by only selecting those types.

I think one of the fundamantal differences I have with many of the posters is that i don't think my blaster should be able to solo all my missions or even half of them. If I wanted to solo, I'd play a scrapper or tanker. The fact that I CAN solo as a blaster or defender or controller is gravy. The problem is that at low levels, blasters are one of the BEST soloers and so the expectation gets set. The other problem is that you can't dump missions as discussed.

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One thing I find exhilirating about pickup groups is everyone finding out how everyone else's playstyle interferes with thier own.


[/ QUOTE ] That's pretty funny. Even funnier because I've found that noob blasters are the ones that are the most disurptive to team tactics because of their indiscriminate use of AoE's and incessant need to start battles.

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I agree completely. After a hard day of work, I enjoy some nice debt. After all, my end-of-day entertainment should definitely involve tactical planning.

[/ QUOTE ] As I recall, in an earlier thread you were the one who said all you did is run around reading content, correct? Acting like any challenge is counterproductive to an enjoyable game is disengenuous. I've been playing video games for well over 10 years now as I think most people on here have. I hate to break it to you, but most of us are used to video games being 10 times harder than CoH. Go team a lvl 16+ tanker with a lvl 16+ blaster and tell me there is a challenge. Taunt + AoE is easy xp all day long. In fact, it was so easy that when my SG buddy wanted to do it again, I brought out my own blaster instead. I'm 21, he's 20, we promptly did my Striga missions on Invinc. One death, his, against a boss that was +3 to him and only happened because he ran in to firesword and got kicked in return.

True, there was no mezzing. And it's too bad because without mezzing mobs, we didn't need anyone else.

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Yeah, I live for the game to be more tactical....

[/ QUOTE ] You've basically admitted that you don't want the game to be tactical at all...so we're not going to agree.

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The improved HP/Damage on the bosses actually made squishies even LESS useful, except perhaps force-field defenders

[/ QUOTE ] I have to offer a difference of opinion. It was my experiernce that the improved bosses put a higher penalty on sloppy play. Let's be honest, the amount of tactical cooridination that goes into most battles with bosses is abysmal. Hell, AV's hardly get focused planning. As several have pointed out, tankers and scrappers run around willy nilly and attack whoever they so please. Imo, this is lame. Look at the comic battles, the team either has a specific tactical plan they have to carry out, or they often get beat.

One of the reasons I loved the Tsoo so much is that they thoroughly spanked you for just button mashing. Everybody running around attacking whomever and you'd watch team after team get beated. Sorcs and Hurricane would debuff and heal the minions....defender would eventually run out of endurance, then players would start to drop. Beating the Tsoo requried that everyone get on the same page, and use specific methods to win. Few if any mobs require that kind of concentration and coordination.

Improved bosses brought that back. They required that you had a plan and that you really used your debuffs and your tanker and focused on what the boss was doing, and where it was going.

Imo, the bosses didn't make the squishies less useful, they made them more useful, but required that they do very specific things. Having a Kinetics or Elec drain a boss of endurance was a huge benefit. Using Tar Patch or Snow Storm to slow it down was huge benefit. Now, that Energy knockback was welcomed. Having a blaster slamming the boss with high powered single target attacks was also important. But it required timing and coordination. A blaster's sniping bosses to start a battle was debt waiting to happen.

Again, I thought it made the game much more demanding. Clearly many players could not adjust and did not want to adjust.

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It didn't really accomplish what the devs intended, except perhaps for sets like super reflexes

[/ QUOTE ] hadn't really thought about that, but perhaps that is why I enjoyed the new bosses. It definitely made /SR much more challening. I can see with /Regen if the boss still can't kill you, you've only extended the duration of the fight. Still, I think /Invul would have been impacted by the increased damage...especially now that they've reduced the +def of Invinc.

I also think it might have added more role defining strategies. I have to say that when I play my scrappers I routinely see blasters shoot the bosses and lt's. I've always felt this was out of line except that at lower levels, blasters are better than scrappers. In addition, when I play my defenders, I'm appalled at how lazy scrappers are at dispatching the bosses. I had hoped that the improved bosses would go a long way to scrappers being required to immediately take out the bosses while the blasters left them alone. I was also hoping to see it put a higher premium on tankers and make it more difficult for all defender teams to get away with no melee types.

What makes teaming fun, imo, is when you have a unique talent that is needed. If no AT is needed, not even a little, then I think the game suffers.

Improved bosses forced teams to focus as a team while fighting those bosses. Sloppy play was penalized. However, I can see on a 8-hero team, fighting 2 and 3 bosses would just be near suicidal.

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Unless you were a good player, with the right sets and power selection the tougher bosses were difficult/impossible.

[/ QUOTE ] I can believe it. The main reason is that devs specifically wanted this to be true. They also went on about how you weren't required to kill the boss to complete the vast majority of missions...not sure how accurate that was.

I also know that from my own testing with my scrapper that I was in danger of defeat by even level bosses post lvl 30. The could two-shot me. +2 bosses forced me to use inspirations. I got defeated twice by the same +2 DE boss in one mission. He had like 20% hit points and he still killed me a second time. That's NEVER happened before or since to my scrapper. Too bad. I loved that.

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32 blasters really aren't needed to do damage because of controller's pets and scrapper's do so much damage there really is no reason to have "ranged support"....

[/ QUOTE ] I hate to say this...but it gets worse. Not only do Scrappers start to pwn when the get all those extra slots, but Tankers and Defenders start coming on strong as well. By 32, everyone's got Stamina six slottted and now they are slotting attacks and have the endurance to finish their own battles.

Your experience is exactly what many here have recognized as the problem. It's not that you don't do enough damage, it's that the rest of the AT's start doing damage.

My advice...find lvl low 20 lvl tanks with Taunt or some really really good taunting auras and SK them.

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Actually, the Boss patch made a few fights impossible for Blasters without holds.

[/ QUOTE ] Without inspirations or with inspirations against mezzing bosses, I can see that. But popping four Lucks before a fight is better defense than any non-Elude scrapper has inherently. And most secondaries have some sort of immobilize that will stop a boss when double stacked.

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Yes... except... most of the defensive sets didn't have complete status protection ***Wet Ice was exclusive and didn't protect against sleep

[/ QUOTE ] The sleep issue was a bug. I think even the scrappers sets didn't have sleep protection initially. Yes, some of the sets did have one or two weaknesses, but scrappers were by and large immune to status effects. The whole /Invul issue was a trade off for how powerful /invul was in general. The Taunt of Invincibility (or was that added later?) kept mobs close and both tankers and scrappers have a Taunt power. Inv/Inv's would just be more inclined to take it. The root in Root and Unyielding Stance was also thematic. I think the bottom line is that the mezzing is aimed at the squishies, not the tankers and certainly not the scrappers. You can't have tanks and scrappers dropping toggles in combat on team sized spawns. That's instant death. The blaster isn't going to run over and Taunt the mobs away from you.

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The prevalence of status effects and other defense-mangling tricks

[/ QUOTE ] Status effects and defense-debuffs are too completely different animals. Quartz is not comparable to the Sleep of Yellow Ink Men. Eminators, sheild generators, Turrets, are clearly intended to make blasters and defenders ranged attacks more useful. Yes, all the powers off the mobs are aimed at counter acting the powers of the Heroes.

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even status resistances can eventually be overwhelmed. But... and this is the big but... anything that can do that will completely blow undefended ATs.

[/ QUOTE ] Not really. You don't significantly hurt a blaster anymore if you increase the mag of a Hold to overcome Integration. The duration yes, the mag no.

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I guarantee any villain group in I5 will have numerous foes with -Resistance and/or -Regeneration attacks.

[/ QUOTE ] Well, I think this was long long overdue, but may be overkill with the -Regen. Pre I4, /regen was still pretty uber..post, don't know that they need so much -Regen. -Res on the other hand yes. But I would argue that it should be untyped damage and not -Res. -Res will only hurt squishies even more. Untyped will only affect Invul/Invul.

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in, see how they buffed bosses a few patches back, and look at the carnage that resulted.

[/ QUOTE ] Asa scrapper, I loved it. The problem for squishies is that it made the margin of error even smaller. Though luck can be a factor in every close battle, success should not depend on it. Bosses that can one-shot squishies opens the door to a lot of unlucky deaths. Teammates should have a chance of rescuing each other.

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3) Status effects, as they are now, are horribly broken***The intent of the toggle-dropping is obvious, it's the dev's way to try and get through defensive powersets...

[/ QUOTE ] I think that's quite literally backwards. The intent of the status effects is not to get through the defensive AT's. Why would they have status protection if it was? The point of Status effects is to force Controllers and Blasters do take defenders and tankers and scrappers on their team. The status effects are specifically put there to affect the squishies. Their very existence also supports the defender employement. The only reason I have Inertial Density is because someone can status a blaster or controller. I don't have it for the scrapper.

Scrappers are by design the solo AT. All other classes are intended to have a glaring weakness or weaknesses, countered by another AT.

Status effects are not "horribly" broken. They are specifically what makes scrappers are the true solo AT. It's by design. Kinetics, Storm, Empath, Dark, and Rad all provide some form of Status Protection. Force Field protects you from getting hit in the first place, which is often tantamount to status protection.

Wow ..21/21.. surprised myself since I didn't even know who Commander Courage, Nova, or Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh even are.

I chalk it up to all those standardized tests I've taken....that and the electro-shock therapy.

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[BI is a tiny bit lower, but its mainly due to the lethal damage type scraps get]...

[/ QUOTE ] Let's try and be a little more accurate with this statement. Using the BI as any accurate indication of what goes on in battles can only be justified by a biased attempt to misrepresent the truth.

Every scrapper has either ALL smashing/lethal or in the two exceptions, part smashing part negative/toxic. Martial Arts, Katana, Broadsword, Claws use either smashting or lethal. S/L is THE most resisted damage type in the game. The BI fails to account for that. Nor does the BI account for the time it takes to chase down new opponents. Just so you can attack them. I can tell you that my scrapper has spent plenty of missions with blasters, running over to mob, only to get an invalid target cuz he's already been killed.

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it seems controllers MIGTH be dealing equal-to or HIGHER damage than we can using their APPs.


[/ QUOTE ] APP's???? You're kidding right? These things are available at lvl 41? Can' slot them up until lvl 43. So you're saying the for the last 7 or so levels of the game, it's outrageous that some controllers, if they they choose the right powers, can equal blaster damage? I hardly find that a compelling argument.

I'll be the first to agree that once everyone can slot SO's, blasters become less and less needed. But let's not distort the truth. Blasters do plenty of damage relative the mobs. My blaster teamed with two controllers and I guarantee you that no scrapper could have taken them out as quickly as I did. But the truth is a Tank could have still taken out those same mobs with less risk, just a lot slower. It seems to me, the game has backed itself into a corner. If you make it so missions without a blaster are perceptually much much slower, it'll adversely affect many non-blaster AT's ability to solo.

How do you make me feel like having a blaster is nearly essential when I form a TF? Increasing your damage won't do it. I can already kill all the mobs quickly.

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The *perception* that we do great damage is just an illusion brought on by the fact that while everyone's slowly slotting stuff for later, we're working on our attacks

[/ QUOTE ] Let me refocus this thought. The "perception" is that you do a lot of damage and no one else does snot. The "illusion" is that blasters' comparative damage is supposed to be that much greater than everyoen else's. Blasters quickly feel like no one else should be able to hold a candle to them damage wise, a preception born from reality at low lvls. The question/problem is whether they should have ever experienced such a wide disparity to begin with.

Blasters still remain the damage kings. Until someone posts definitive, and I mean robust and comprehensive testing that shows blasters getting out damaged, my experience tells me that blasters still dominate raw ouput. I've done the Ernesto Hess TF three times. The one time we had one blaster, there is no question the mobs died faster. None. And that is without the blasters using Inferno.

The problem however, we still got the mission done extremely fast without a blaster. Not only that, but having done it with the blaster. I didn't for a minute feel like I needed one. I definitely wanted a tank, a (non-Ill)controller, a scrapper, and a defender.

A solution recommended by a friend is to signficantly increase everyone else's recharge times while upping their damage to compensate. Making it take longer for non-blasters to kill, should make b blasters more desirable.


Right now, we have so many attacks, combat is a lot of button mashing. If attacks took three times longer to recharge, it would force us to be more selective about when we used powers.

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In other words, the blaster was annihilating things because they were too busy shooting at someone else, AND completely helpless and thus unable to turn around and turn him into a bloody carpet-stain when he DID get their attention.

[/ QUOTE ] Exactly. When I play my blaster, I don't touch my AoE attacks unless

A) I'm feeling lucky, or

B) Someone is holding their aggro

Any other time is suicide. Same with my defender, except she can heal herself, but Psyhic Scream has killed me a bunch. I know this. I don't complain when I use my AoE at the wrong time and I die.

1)...Yup..that's why my blaster NEVER starts an attack until someone else aggro's the group first. Can't say many blasters abide by this code.

2) It is ranged attacks keeping him alive. I mean to say the /Regen died from this, not from the trap springing. Because he can attack AWAY from the tanker and the most pit, he can avoid the AoE. When I did Bastion at 27, I died 8 times the first I did it. Attacking mobs surrouding the tanker, repeatedly subjected me to massive AoE and multiple deaths, and I mean multiple. I died more than any blaster on that TF because I had to close to melee to fight and to use my Soul Drain. I finally realized that I had to just forget about getting SD and Shadow Maul cones and attack mobs on the fringe.

In this response you go into ranged "defense." I never said blasters have ranged defense. But being able to attack at range is unequivocably safer. It's not safer if you insist on using AoE's with no one to hold aggro.

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Mind explaining to me WHY everyone claims we shouldn't step on other people's toes, while they're walking on our heads?

[/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. By the mid and late 30's, the other AT's start doing damage...not blaster damage, but here's the thing...the other AT's start to close the gap. The don't close it. Blasters are doing more damage, but the difference isn't nearly as dramatic as it is in the teens and early 20's.

At lvl 28, my D3 just got TT and Night Fall. Night Fall does about 3-6 pts per tick ...if I have TP down. By lvl 35, if I have that puppy six slotted, I still won't be doing blaster damage, but I'll be doing more than enough to take down mobs in acceptable time.

Which underscores my agreement that all the other AT's do infringe on the blaster mega damage perception that is inflated at earlier levels due to circumstances. Blasters get used to doing so much more compartive damage early.


As I've said before and I 'll say again. I have no problem witth them lowering damage of the other AT's, specifically scrappers and Tanks. Just lower endurance as well.

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but right now, defense is king because of the way defense/resistance stacking work.


[/ QUOTE ] This just isn't true. Smart tactical playing is king, and it's queen is simply high damage. A number of scrappers have proven, myself included that solo missions on Invinc can be completed with less defense than you can get in the power pools. The reason is because we can kill mobs so quickly, we don't need defense.

The ONE thing you need to solo safely is mez protection. The game has provided Break Free and defenders and controllers to bridge that gap. The fact that you need def/contr for mez protection is part of what gives their class purpose. The fact that they don't do good damage is what gives your class purpose. Blasters, Tankers, Controllers, and Defenders are designed to be more reliant on each other than scrappers. Scrappers are designed to be self-reliant. If, you, as a blaster covet that, then go play a scrapper. I don't play my defender bemoaning the fact that I don't blaster damage...I go team with a blaster...or I play one.

I did the Ernesto Hess TF last night with a team of six. We did it on Heroic. Tanker, two controllers, two scrappers, fire blasters. The blaster did WAY more damage than anyone else on the team...by far. Tanker would go herd a small group, Earth/Storm Contr would slap down Volcanic Gases and Freezing Rain...the Fire blaster just annhilated the mobs. I'd turn to go fight one guy that got separated from the group...and I'd turn back around and the mobs were gone. Massive massive damage coming from the blaster. The key was he was smart enough when to use them and didn't die once from attacking in that situation...

When did he die?
1) The trap sprung on us and we got separated. Controller told him to sit tight and not attack...my guess is he attacked. This killed the /Regen scrapper on the team once too.

2) Stood too close to the tanker while the tanker was hearding...got taken out by AoE's....I warned him several times about that before it happened...only happened once. Ranged damage keeping him alive.

3) Got hit by some grenade and got knocked off the scaffolding and fell into the lava. Pretty cool actually.

Three deaths...I think the Earth controller died twice. Three deaths...one which definitely could have been avoided and this guy was killing by the truckload.

But one thing I noticed that he did, which so many blasters seem to do, is he kept attacking the biggest target. Why? If you have no defense why do blasters insist on attacking bosses and Lt's when there are tons of minions to deal with?

If giving blasters any defense and mez protection will only result in them continuing to try and take on the bosses/Lt's as their primary targets, it will infringe on the role of scrappers. I think the devs want to keep the roles separate.

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Still, problem is that as far as our survival is concerned this falls to one of three specific things:

1)Aggro-specialised Tanker (the guy just using taunt once in a while won't cut it)

2) total lockdown (but at that point, what use are we? and more importantly, controllers once they get their pets... have their own damage-dealers... without the xp-loss.)

3) forcefields (.... sorta iffy, especially against purples).


Fact is, other than those three in particular, there's not really anything to 'defend' us. You don't NEED to take the aggro control three-steps further if you're not going to try to keep a blaster alive.

Can a team really protect a blaster? Sure; if they happen to be of rather specific AT's and builds.

Do they really have any reason to want to do so other than as an incidental side-effect of having powers that happen to help protect the blaster? ... not in the least.

[/ QUOTE ]I have to disagree with all of this except the last sentence.

1) 1 Tankers can slot their attacks and auros with Taunt. This goes a long way towards holding aggro and making mobs rubberband. But back to the original problem..how many feel the desire to do this?

2) Total lockdown is not infinite...you eventually need to kill the minions. More importantly, a lot of control powers don't necessary completely lock down. Earthquakes is a fantastic power for providing blasters with the reduction in Mob DPS to allow blasters to do to work.

3) Let me open your eyes to the many wonderful powers that can help blasters - Mass Hyponisis, Black Hole, Fearsome Stare, Dark Pit, Tenebrous Tentacles, Darkest Night, Radiation Infection, Snow Storm, Freezing Rain, Ice Patch, Night Fall, Whirling Hands, Whirling Sword, Spin, Soul Drain, Sun Mire etc. etc etc.

One of the best ways to allow a blaster to use AoE's with little or no retribution, is to wait until the mobs get off their first attack....then the blaster AoE's (avoiding the counter alpha)..then a defender, controller, or scrapper, or tanker follows with an AoE or a Cone AoE that pulls off a lot of the aggro. This works like a champ.

The problem is that no one pays attention to when a blaster AoE's....and more improtantly, they dont' use their own AoE's as specific aggro control. You have no idea how underutilized these tactis are, and how effective than can be in keeping blasters safe. Throw in powers like Fortitude, Speed Boost, Inertial Density, Clear Mind, O2 Boost, and other status/defense/buff powers for individuals, and it's very easy to keep a blaster alive while he or she using AoE's.

But as we both agree...why bother? Last night my Dark/Dark

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It doesn't increase the effectiveness of the team to protect us...

[/ QUOTE ] I tihnk the problem Nova is that the team isn't really focused on protecting the blaster in many cases...at lvl 30+..there is no incentive. I've been on teams which paid attention and the blasters survived and just mauled.

The question is can a team which is motivated be effective? I agree...this is more dangerous if you fight on Invinc...where the mobs are doing so much more damage you have less reaction time. But assuming most people play on Heroic....I'm optimistic that a team focused on aggro control and blaster preservation can handle spawns 50% bigger.

Again...the question is can a team really protect blaster? I think they can they just aren't motivated.

Of course, you can always just give blasters defense or more hitpoint and reduce the need for teams to work together.

[ QUOTE ]
I think untyped damage is the positive -res you're talking about...

[/ QUOTE ] Yes. If there was more damage in the hands of minoins of the type that was unresistable....that would put the onus on scrappers but mainly tankers to get blasters to help them to kill more quickly.

...of course...that could mean more deaths for /DA...but wait...they have Soul Transfer!!!!! So never mind, /DA is covered.

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Increasing spawn size has some problems... Notably our aggro, and the big question of "will they get packed up fast enough for us to make a difference".

If yes, then as-is nothing's stopping anyone else's AoE powers [including the tanker that herded them] from decimating them.

If no, then those extra enemies mean you either HAVE to have a tanker, due to the massive number of foes that need to be reliably not-shooting at you, or you're in rather deep...

Perhaps if we're to be "minion cleaners" then the trick would be to remove the crits against minions scrappers do, but increase their LT and boss crit-chance by 5% each.

Meanwhile, give us a 10% (and therefore unresistable) damage bonus against minions (5% vs lt's and nothing on bosses), to go with our brand new inherent 5% ranged damage resistance (it ain't much but it'll eventually stack up a tiny bit) and +1 mag.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, exploring this idea further...I'm operating under the sassumption, that when you really look at it...no other AT has the AoE damage that a blaster does. Most other AT's get them late (Fire Tanks and Spines scrapper notwithstanding). Tankers and Def's have AoE attacks in their secondary which means they come late and with defs, they are much weaker. Scrappers generaly have only one true AoE, the rest are shallow cone attacks. So while others can AoE...no one can do it like blasters. The problem is that blasters have trouble doing it safely....

So, the idea is that as you increase the team size...you really start seeing a lot more minions and you really need to protect the blaster to kill them quickly. Put enough minions on an eight team mission and even the non-spines scrappers are going to start begging the blaster to AoE...but here is the problem with the idea. Blasters have have the discipline not to use AoE unless teammates are protecting them...and committed to doing so.

Too often, I see blasters use AoE with no communication/forewarning to team members and no one is ready or able to respond to the huge aggro shift. In my experience...this is the real culprit. A lot of blasters want to AoE all the time. They do it..they die...and they keep doing it. No one really cares in the 30's because we don't need the damage. Substantially increasing the number of foes to kill and you'll want to make sure the blaster is there and being protected. Ideally, you'd like to put in enough minions so they can reliably kill tankers without blasters support.

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps if we're to be "minion cleaners" then the trick would be to remove the crits against minions scrappers do, but increase their LT and boss crit-chance by 5% each.

[/ QUOTE ] Interesting idea. One problem, however, is it just seems wonky. Why are minions immune to crits? But in honesty, why are bosses more vulnerable to crits? No reason, so we can ignore the wonkyness of the idea as the situation is already wonky.

I actually like the idea. Even though it lacks elegance, I think it provides a good incentive. I like that it seeks to use postiive reinforcement from a very visceral way that appeals to scrappers. Big crits on the big guys.

As a scrapper, I would be more than willing to surrender my minion crits for increased boss and lt's crits. In fact, I would be willing to surrender my minion crits simply to carve out a role for blasters. But there are some unavoidable realities..

1) You'd need to communicate this to scrappers. Let's be honest, how many in-game scrappers know that they get increased chances against bosses? I can't tell you how many times I tell the scrapper to focus on the bosses simply because he's got the best chance of bringing the boss down the fastest.

2) People like racking up kills. Minions are easy to kill and go down comparatively quickly. People like getting lost of kills so they tend to do for the weaklings...look at PvP. Regardless of "role" or incentive...it will be hard to get people who play scrappers to zero in on bosses first.

3) People follow patterns. Since most scrappers solo a fair amount, you'll have a hard time getting them to switch gears in teams. When you solo, at low level, you take out minions as quickly as you can because you don't have the defense to survive them in large numbers. I see this all the time in team play...the scrapper just starts attacking the closest minion.

4) Sometimes the minions are the most dangerous. Sappers (I love what they do to /regens) are everyone's primary target. As an /SR, I can't stand Earth Stone Casters and their AoE's and will focus on them first, ignoring Lt's.

5) Blasters are often better boss killers than scrappers. Truth is...with build-up and and ton of heavily slotted attacks...through most of the game, blasters still can put out way more single target damage than a scrapper. Not until much later in the game when scrappers can finally start six slotting attacks do I think it's comparable. If blasters are going to be minion killers, they too would have to focus on minions. I frequently see blasters trying to put down Lt's and Bosses on teams ahead of minions.


so yes....I like the idea of removing scrapper crits against minions, but you definitely need to combine that with larger minion spawns, or something else.

I'm not in favor of increasing damage for blasters. Not even in the form of unresisted damage. What blasters need ..what every AT needs is a role on a team. Giving them more damage means little when that damage isn't needed to begin with.

What it will do is force you to face even higher lvl mobs for a challenge...and exposing you to even greater risk and higher debt.

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Let an ascendant shoot at your defender or blaster for a bit and see what happens...

[/ QUOTE ]Well, that's true...keep forgetting that -Res also makes you more vulnerable instead of just taking away any +RES that you have. I guess I would change -Res to only take away positive resistance...in other words -REgen doesn't make you start losing health. More -REs would be bad for blasters more so than defenders...unless that changed it.

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Now Mieux, this is the first post I totally agree with you on.

[/ QUOTE ] You've agreed with all my posts, you just haven't admitted it to yourself.

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Make it so that even if you have two scrapper on your team, killing all the spawns on a 6 man mission would take forever....

[/ QUOTE ] Damn it man, we may have just stumbled upon the solution for a blaster role. Increase the spawn size by a larger multiple for adding team membes. Maybe keep solo missions the same size, but making duo missions 30% more minions. Make trios have 50% more minions...make 8 man teams have 200% more minions.

I think this will dramatically increase the value of blasters without affecting the solo game. It will also require more aggro control...so this might require some testing. More minions could also mean blasters die that much faster without someone to control the mobs....but again, it encourages players to keep teams balanced as they get larger without adversely affecting small teams which cannot be balanced.

But as a blaster on an eight man team...if there's no tank or lock down controller, I shouldn't expect to being using AoE's. I think the game benefits from me being forced to communicate with the tank and controller in my use of AoE's...."You hold/taunt and then I'll use my AoE...or...hold/taunt right after my AoE..."

or

"Tanker, let me know when your Taunt is recharged and I'll fire my AoE centered on your target, then you follow up with Taunt."


I think one thing that does need to be added is giving more minions -Regen and -Res powers. This really only hurt scrappers and tanks...it increases their need for fast minion killing and creates a love and desire for blasters.

worth a try anyways...

Other night, my lvl 21 Ice/en blaster teamed with a lvl 22 Ill/Kin and a lvl 21 Earth/Storm. We did a defeat all Striga misison on Invinc. Spawns were all +2's it seems. I have Ice bolt, Ice Blast, and Ice Breath all 1/4 slotted. No Tough, no Stealth...but I do have Health and Stamina.

The team rocked (no pun intended). The Earth cntrlr laid down Earthquake, the Ill released PA, hit me with Speed Boost...we had to play smart, but we pwned. Excellent excellent experience.

The team really really relied on one another for survival. Each person had powers that we combined tactically to beat mobs that none of us could have solo'd. THe controllers controlled....and this allowed me to dish out massive damage...non-stop.

I died once at the end when we totally over-aggro'd. Our fault...but only I died and undoubtedly because I kept using AoE's without acknowledging that the controllers were not able to control everyone. Of course when I fell, the two controllers had no chance to defeat the mobs and they had to run...and this is exactly what should happen. Remove one member and a team is severely handicapped.

Now here's the rub....if we go to lvl 32+...I'm guessing those two controllers wouldn't have needed me at all...the reason why I was so critical at this lvl is they don't do very much damage. By the 30's everyone is doing massive damage relative to the mobs...so the extra damage from blastes is hardly a necessity.

Now, I'm sure you've heard this from other posts...but remember...I'm playing on Invinc with lvl 20 DO's. Increasing my damage doesn't change the fact that just about any AT can still provide the firepower to take out +2,+3 mobs...once they get SO's all those extra slots in the 30's. If I've already got sufficient fire power for a three team spawn on Invinc with DO's...upping my damage seems silly.

I know that nerfing everyone else's damage is about as popular as the DEA at a Phish concert. I realize that nothing short of sacrificing your first born will get Tankers to agree to less damage. So if you aren't willing to reduce everyone else's damage...and if increasing blaster damage will just trivialize battles..and not make them more fun....

What is the role of "Ranged" damage? What does the ranged aspect of damage confer an advantage to a team. My point is that I love the idea that ranged damage should confer an advantage...in solo play it definitely does at lower levels anyway. I would love to see the devs come up with missions or situations where the range aspect is vitally important.

On a side note..perhaps a way to increase the value of 'range' is to increase the range of blaster attacks so they are greater than enemy mez attacks. Not good for PvP...but good for PvE.

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Mieux is right though, in his assertions.

[/ QUOTE ]You go too far!!!!!

Don't be crazy man....don't throw yourself in with the likes of me.

I don't know Concern. Never met him...he's not with me.

Give all your one-stars to me...Concern's not the one you want.