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Super Strength is a poor cousin to Scrapper powers - which seems somewhat out of place. Don't worry - what we're looking at as a fix for ALL Tankers addresses this issue.

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Again, as Krunch said, Super Strength is underpowered compared to other Tanker powers. Please put it, and Ice and War Mace and Stone Melee, on par with Axe, late-game Energy Melee, and Firey Melee. You can do your Global Tanker fix, that's great, but you need to balance the Tanker secondaries too.

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I am not sure of the exact text of the following quote nor who said it, but it goes something like 'A reasonable man changes himself to fit the world, and an unreasonable man tries to change the world to fit him'. I guess I am an unreasonable man, I can live with that.


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You forgot the last, and most important part, of that quote:

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. (George Bernard Shaw)

Thank you, Positron!

Might I suggest adding a 3rd mission listing to contacts for "group only" missions? I'd love to be able to do these whenever I get a group together, instead of possibly blowing all my soloable missions in a group, and then having only group missions left over when my friends log off.

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Let’s say the two of us agree to fund a one-slot snack machine together at our office. I only buy into the idea because you assure me it’ll be filled with cookies. However, being a candy person you really don’t like cookies, but assume that after I’ve invested time and money into the idea you can eventually get things changed so that the machine will be stocked with candy, which I abhor. Now ask me why I’d be annoyed.


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Here is what it looks like from my perspective. After years of wanting a vending machine in our office (mainly because we assumed it would have candy in it, which was a reasonable assumption), someone capable of providing one finally told us we were getting one. We were told for a LONG time that we were going to get candy in it. It got installed, you walked up to it, looked at what it offered and said "Cool! Cookies!", and bought some.

We, feeling ripped off, are trying to at least get cookies with M&Ms in them, so that there is some minor semblance of candy there, since the installer has basically told us that we aren't getting candy, because it would SPONTANEUSLY COMBUST AND LIGHT THE BUILDING ON FIRE ...for some reason. I suspect that it is just that they already gave the candy to someone else, accompanied by many public announcements, and are now making up excuses so they don't have to take it back. (Most of those with the candy now would likely be perfectly happy with cookies, by the way.)

I'm sorry you feel we are stepping on you while doing this, and I understand why you feel that way regarding the knockback changes, and I agree with you on that to some extent. However, I personally feel backed into a corner, as my enjoyment of the knockback doesn't mesh with the enjoyment of my friends, since my "role" is to keep all the thugs in a nice little area where I can make sure they keep beating on me, while Scrappers are going after the biggest guy in the room (what I thought I would be doing). Since Cryptic isn't backing down from the "tankers = crowd control" role, I don't know what else to do. I do at least think they should make Knockback enhancers give a damage bonus equal to damage enhancers, and raise the price to that level as well, so we can be free to choose. The toggle would be great too, but I suspect the enhancement change would be easier.

I came into this game wanting to play someone super strong, and I got a mediocre "hero" whose punches just knock people around more than hurt them. And that is just the beginning of how unhappy I am with what I have to put up with to get a set that looks like and is named Super Strength. This character barely plays like what I would enjoy, and I have no other options, since they won't give Super Strength to Scrappers. I'd love to quit and go somewhere else, but this is the only Superhero game out that lets you make your own hero, and play them as if they were the main character.

I wish they'd just given us real comic tanks out the door, so that you'd have walked up to the vending machine and said "cool! candy!", as it sounds like you would have-- just looking at what is offered and making the best of it. We'd all be a lot happier, except maybe those people that wanted to be immobile meat shields/provoke bots.

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For the record, I disagree with a lot of what’s being said here. I disagreed with the changes to knockback. I do fine with my tanker and while I believe there are many large problems with balance in this game, I don’t believe changing tankers powers left and right to work best within that imbalance is the correct way to go about things. I believe players perceive tankers as broken because they compare them against broken systems with problems that have nothing to do with tankers.


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I'm glad you said this. I think the reason this thread is here, is that most of these people (myself somewhat included, not quite there yet) have either given up trying to get Tankers to be like Comic Tanks, or come from other MMORPGs and just want to make good meatshields that can deal decent damage.

Cryptic totally screwed up Tankers and Scrappers by basing Scrappers on Wolverine instead of Nightcrawler/Spiderman/Batman, and Tankers on a cross between The Blob and MMORPG Tanks instead of Colossus/The Thing.

If they hadn't done this, if we weren't given the crowd control role, and if Statesman wasn't sticking to his "Tankers role is to 'take damage'" stand, I bet nobody would be asking for knockback to be changed to knockdown.

On the other hand, Super Strength being so dramatically inferior to Axe, Firey Melee, and Energy Melee is just silly in a comic book game, so I support the effort to bring it up to their level, effectiveness wise, regardless of my position on what the "real" problems are.

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...Compared to a scrapper like Wolverine who cannot take the huge hits and cannot do as much damage but is faster and can do like 2-3 hits before Colossus finished 1 hit.


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I totally agree with what you have said except for one thing: Use Nightcrawler as your Scrapper, not Wolverine.

Wolverine can't take big hits and can't dish out big damage? My comics say differently. Wolverine can cut through foot-thick cadmium steel doors like butter, take down 30 foot sentinels single handedly, and shrug off direct hits from Juggernaut, Cyclops, and the Hulk.

I think this is one of the biggest problems with the melee ATs. Scrappers were based on Wolverine, who is NOT a Scrapper. The only things keeping Wolverine from being a Tank-mage are heat-vision and flight. Every other Scrapper in comics does far, far less "damage" than Wolverine, and they all do less "damage" per hit than the Tankers. Where they excel is speed, adaption to difficult circumstances, and the ability to take on multiple opponents at once.

What you say is correct, Scrappers should be fast, medium damage with a couple cones and/or AoEs, and tankers slow, high single target damage with one or two situational use, non- or low-damage cones and AoEs like Handclap. Scrappers in comics take out the hordes of minions while the Tankers take out the biggest guy around. This fits Nightcrawler/Colossus, Captain America/Hulk, and Batman/Superman (if you reduce Superman to his old-school Inv/SS tank with super leap version).

Also, if we weren't crowd-control anymore, you realize that knockback would be cool and fun, right? Who cares if we knock the boss all over the room, we are still taking him out and keeping him from hitting anyone else.

The problem is, switching this now would upset some Scrappers (though I think most would remain happy-- killing hordes of minions is what many of them do anyway, and it sure is fun). Of course, you've already got a lot of upset people, so I say do it anyway, just to get the game to where it should be.

Blah. Statesman isn't listening to this (or isn't willing to make such a radical change, even if it is for the better) though, so instead we have to just ask for removal of knockback and an increase in damage so we can be slightly more effective, but feel even less like comic tanks than we do now.

How dull.

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I would definitely keep Taunt in the secondary line. It has its single target pulling uses.


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I said this in the last thread: If Taunt must remain in the Tanker Secondaries, please, PLEASE, reduce the animation time to 1 second. I just got the new Katana taunt animation on the Test server, and it is cancelable after about a second. It is wonderfully short, cool looking, and doesn't make my female character sound like a man when doing it (though the Katana one doesn't have ANY sound).

If we have to have a single target taunt, for the love of god, reduce the animation time. The only reason I took Provoke instead of it is because the animation time is half that of Taunt, looks cooler, and sounds perfect, nevermind the AoE aspect.

Ok, I haven't read the whole thread yet, and I will and will make comments later (I have some work to do), but I wanted to make this statement:

I fully support these changes, but I do NOT think that this will be enough to make Super Strength comparable to Axe, or late-game Energy Melee.

Reliance on Rage to get our damage to equal theirs still handicaps us, because they now have a higher damage cap than we do, and because they still have Buildup.

Anyway, I'll comment more later.

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I just got Negotiator from doing that 60 minute timed skulls/clockwork mission you get around level 8.

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can you explain how you got this? Did you go back and do the mission??

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I've been leveling a Katana scrapper from level 1 on Test. She's level 8. She got it over the normal course of play. Don't know if RSKING will allow you to get it again. Unfortunately, my main has already done this mission anyway, so I can't even test it.

I just got Negotiator from doing that 60 minute timed skulls/clockwork mission you get around level 8.

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