LadyJudgement

I voted for The Projectionist... although I would have loved to have seen closer likenesses to his amazing cast, which also gets my vote.

Color Separations are the Debbil !!!

why have rules at all if they don't apply, why not call them guidelines... don't go over the yellow lines... do not pass go. OR do whatever the heck you want, and umm we'll just vote.

I had some great art teachers, people who really cared about their jobs. Who cared about us, but I was lucky enough to go to Music & Art 79-83, which is now combined with the Fame School behind Lincoln Center in NYC.

When I went to student teach Art there in 96, Photoshop was a part of the curriculum in the Photography Dept. I can only imagine that now 13 years later that Computer Art is also a part of their classes.

But my Homeroom teacher WAS a Typography teacher... and yes I got lucky enough to take her class. If only I could have peeled my brain from the paint... Though that was nothing compared to the job I had in the late 80s working for a company that made Phonebooks. That work should have been done by prisoners, murderers, mailmen.

Paste up and mechanicals by hand. Using an exacto knife to make an 80 ad quota a day. Now all this work is done by computers and rightly so... but I digress. I think it is possible to teach people to be more artistic, and for those with good visual skills to mold that WITH not only a creative outlook, but an apprentice like "battery" of knowledge.

The Amish are the Debbil !!!

Typography is the Debbil!!!

Yes it is their duty to correct, to insure that the student isn't short cutting. If all the kid can talk about is photoshop in a non computer friendly atmosphere, then the student is in the wrong place. But their enthusiasm should not be ignored, neither should their zest to share what they can accomplish.

E. - your skill level with paint maybe frustrating, but I would never tell you to only discuss paint in a painting class, the language of art, is life. There is no hammer to fall on the sharing of ideas, if the class is humongous, then do it after class, if time is an issue. But heck if my kid was paying 40 grand for an art education, I'd want him to pester every frickin ounce from his teachers... if they can't hack it, don't teach!

Yes staying on topic is understandable, but teachers NEED to know what they are up against. They need to see that their life drawing student is floundering or excelling in another medium. It IS all related. You can teach a digital artist to apply color theory and their work gets better.

Perhaps the disdain is that they believe nothing digital can be returned to traditional medium. I have phrased that poorly... but I do not get where the are coming from. At least I don't agree with it. No offense intended.

it does bother me though that art teachers will not take it to account a student's medium and see for themselves what the final creation is. yes tradition must be maintained, allowed to fruition, but ignoring the digital medium because THEY have no concern or concept... that is aggravating.

You're supposed to be teachers, open minded. Students are looking for answers not door closings.

Oh yeah, totally agree, even though I am on the Dark Side. But it is true that kids who express themselves artistically will take to this medium like second nature. Just look at the amount of under 21 talent on DA from areas like Malaysia, India, the Philippines, Korea, Romania, Mexico, and of course the US. Girls too! Which I am not saying was never the case, just that there are so many more cool female artistic geeks out there now... makes you wanna go back in time... *cue Huey Lewis*

When I talk about digital artists, I mean those with substantial skills with this medium, not merely beginners. When I talk about comic artists, I mean the same thing, experience is always the key. I think if you love art, if you use a pc or paintbrush or a pencil, the creation of it, the joy of having it as a part of your life can translate no matter what you use.

I just wish everyone would try something new, and old I suppose. Graver's work makes me want to paint again...

And E. I use to work in Ink... and also here's something I was crazy enough to do in felt tip marker alone...

LJ

Spiked Head and Wings?

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what the hell

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you want 12 A next door...

I am strangely reminded of Rocky IV, where Rocky has to unlearn everything he knew in order to take on his opponent. Oh wait, didn't he do that in Rocky III as well... whatever you get my point.

Starting in one "medium" be it traditional or digital and switching to the other, does require a bit of unlearning and relearning. I think there is a benefit to both and in doing both. With traditional the discipline is obvious.

But with digital, Time is a factor that is thrown out the window. There is no paint drying time, well loading time from your hard drive, but gone is the consumption of waiting until you can start again. I think as a result this generation of new artists, think faster, see color mixing more intuitively (that is to say if they have explored enough of it in their own work) and in general are more productive, or prolific.

Their vision is not limited by time. Speed painting is an art form of almost Impressionistic joy, that would boggle the mind of traditional painters, even plein aire ones who create in volume with their studies of light.

I am not talking about accuracy here, a lot of digital coloring is suggestive. But yes I think traditional artists should jump into this new shiny clickety-clickety machine and wipe off their Time honored cobwebs of erasing. Who enjoys erasing? If I had a dime for all the pink dust, or lead soaked kneaded erasers I've gummed up... I'd have ... well a lot of dimes.

I know a lot of traditional artists who resist trying new mediums or ideas. Pastel people who won't pick up a paint brush, painters who refuse to paint realism, and yes comic artists who won't use the computer.

Hey I am not my fellow artist's keeper, who am I to judge? Oh wait, that's my name... anyway what I'm saying is, these walls need breaking down. It's fine to be comfortable, to be accomplished is wonderful, and even to be "the master of your house"... but let it go Grandpa, stop inhaling the paint thinner, and pick up a Wacom!

Obviously you can tell which side of this argument I am on.

LJ - traditional medium clean since 2001.

I think the whole Alex Ross/Adam Huges arguement can be boiled down to one name... Steve Ditko.

I use to hate Ditko's work. I thought it was cheesy. Weakly drawn, not to mention full of ridiculous shapes. That was then. Now I understand his work was a product of his graphic artist background. Those weird shapes augmented and heightened his story, his obtuse OVER inking was part of his style. That necessary black line which was and still is a defining characteristic of the art form.

Much as the lack of it fits the definition of cell shading and or digital painting. Traditionally we were taught never to use black, that black does not exist in nature, but is instead the creation of color crossing and mixing. As a painter, I get that. Ross and Hughes get that.

But this is their preference, their style, their pushing the current envelope, well ten years ago, to something more artistic traditionally and less of the same old same old. Don't get me wrong, I like meat and potatoes, and sometimes I will eat something exotic, but I like my black lines, with color inside of it.

The book cover illustration look is fine, it is beautiful and it is special. But it's not my meaty black line, with yummy rich color inside those lines. Now some may prefer all of their "collectibles" to be ultra high art, upscale, traditional, edgy even... not I.

I want to see that inker work for a living, I want to see that colorist make the inker's job unbelievable. I don't want to read a graphic novel every time I sit down. I like that cheesy square jaw, the outrageous costumes... Comic art is not CA just because it has black line. It is the subject matter, plain and simple. Not the storytelling, not the bubbles...

If Picasso painted Superman, he was painting a guy in spandex. Not a fantastical science fiction man, a guy wearing tights! And not just any tights, super tights. We all know Superman never had to wear Depends!

My point is, Ross and Hughes may have traditional fine art approaches, but their subject matter is all Comics. If they were drawing supermodels selling lotion, they would be overpaid Ad Execs, which is also a subset of Illustration... but put a cape on that anemic bikini babe, and suddenly they are Comic Artists.

FD - you like what you like, I respect that. And I love your work...

But leave my black lines alone brotherman... can't we all just get along?

Leaving the linework for the most part is the standard. But if the artist is his own penciller, inker and colorist, the final look is up to them. I do a base of what I need to finish... I use to try and translate purely from what was first created, but being as my strong point is the final color, I leave allowances for what I know will be the final effects.

This is sort of a backwards approach, adding details at the end, instead of the beginning for say inspiration.

The purpose of inking is to enhance the pencil lines, which initially can be too light to paint over. Remember all of this use to be hand colored with luma dyes. With the ability now to simply photo manipulate the tone of your pencils to be viable "inks", you could skip inking and go straight to flats and renders.

The thing is, some pencillers aren't tight pencilers, or they are so tight, their work looks lifeless. Other pencillers have that great texture to their pieces, because they can be so mechanically austere that that in itself is a beautiful aesthetic. Like if you watched someone color in the lines of a coloring book and never making a mistake. Some people are just that meticulous.

The inker has several jobs, by adding a thicker line on one side of an object, he is indicating that shadows fall on that side. By adding what they use to call "zipatone", halftones now, the inker was adding depth and tonal value, before, the colorist got to the original pencils. And zipatone was a hateful process of applying "stickers" to the page, to give the illusion of halftone greys. That use to be a big part of an Inker's job, back in the day.

Now all this can be done digitally. A good penciller will indicate grey tones by the nearness of their lines being adjacent to one another. I am not talking about cross hatching, which to me is an artform in itself.
But line weight actually, because there has to be A LOT of variety, in every given frame, and then again in relation to the entire page.

Is there too much black in one spot, does your eye sink there? Is there not enough contrast. Some inkers never change their line weight, this is a colorist heavy approach, who may or may not add darker areas to enhance the flat drawings.

A good inker can create hair textures where his penciller wants their to be convincing hair. This also goes for stone, for metal, for glass, all of these surfaces require a unique approach. Slapping dark lines over pencils just to get them to show up is NOT inking, that's butcher-ism.

The other thing to remember about Inking is that some art doesn't need color. I was a huge fan of the artists in Savage Sword of Conan in the 70s-80s. That was some serious inking you got for $1.25.

Do yourself a favor and grab some of those at your local "good" comic shop... you won't be sorry.

My Watercolor Teacher taught us with Ink first.

We did dry brush, washes and then "found objects" painting, (I don't recommend drawing with a comb) but we couldn't just jump into color after that. We had to do monochromatic paintings then... it really does teach you light values and the "unforgiving" nature of black ink of spotless white paper.

I think the pencil skirt would look better on your nurse, and some white boots.

OP: part 2 -

Here is a progression of 3 of the 4 stages I work in, I left out the flats...

Click here to see Gray Huntress come to life!

And a close up of an Actual Size face that I just did yesterday, before shrinking it down for coloring.

Click here to see Jackalynn face to face!

I use to work ultra tight, and still do sometimes, but for now, I know what my digital ink brushes will do. So I try to get a flow going there, and that's where all my real drawing happens.

If I were inking my old pencils the way I use to... it would just be to "heighten" my already established lines. In this new way, I create as I go. Although the close up face was done without a blue sketch.

LJ

... and now back to your regularly scheduled argument...

To answer the OP:

1) As a comic artist, what does digital inking mean to you?

It is the sound of inevitability. Think of it from a publisher's viewpoint. If you can cut down on the time it takes to transfer the pencil art to the Inker, and then wait for that person to do his job traditionally. Seconds = money.

I am not saying that traditional inking should fade away, it is too beautiful an art form to do so, AND so very few know how to do it well. A LOT is lost in digital inking, and it NEEDS the hand of a traditional artist to reinvent the process from slick to buttery again. To rich and vibrant, because black line can be all those things on it's own...

BUT, digital inking is a virus, spreading through the industry, and it WILL be the norm eventually. Hopefully it will not be as ugly as it is when it first began. But like any new medium, and mind you this one is only 15 years old, since SPAWN first came out. It will continue to grow, and get better... at least that is how I optimistically look at it.

And yes I ink only digitally, but I started doing it from scratch just like most of us, and for me it's about time management... and pushing my skills back to the look of the real stuff. [

2) Is it an absolutely essential step in creating a comic art, or a vestige of the past, a habit that merely carried over from the traditional era?

No and Yes.

Let's do a little history, here is some Durer 1498, some Da Vinci 1510 and some Dore 1883.

Notice the use of dark and light, of line and negative space... those are things that make inking the hotness we know it to be.

Every artist after them has striven to be that good.

The Comic Inking we enjoy today has so much tradition behind it. It is not just the arbitrary markings of today. What is that crisscross thing some of them do on the thigh muscles? My brain just locks up looking at that. Sometimes it can be fun, but Liefield seemed to abuse the use of it.

Anyway, that is the history, The correct use of inking is to give dimensionality to the flat form. To heighten the rich drama of black spaces, and to give us that "thick to thin dance" to indicate what is a soft, heavy, light, dark object.

If all your line weights are the same, you picture is woodcut at best, at worst it is a black sink hole of flatness. Inking correctly shows us where the light source is, can create textures, can expand on perspective.

In other words it is essential.

But only if you want to create something that much more believable. If you skip this step, no matter how tight your pencils are, it will show...

3) It sounded like for some, it is an expected/required stage, while for others it could easily be skipped.

Again, it's to their own work flow. I draw in lighter shades on a new layer, and "ink" black over those. My sketch can be nothing more than a bunch of ovals and diagnol lines, and the true drawing comes out in the inking.

4) I have been painting in grayscale first for a few months, but now I am starting to use color from the start.

Chiarroscuro = FTW!

5) I am just curious what comic artists think of digital inking (and working with clearly defined stages for that matter), because it is always interesting to learn how other artists work, regardless of style and medium.

I gotta run, but I will post stages when I get back... to further explain. cheers!

LJ

Couldn't help myself...

Fixed: severe face shadows, smallish back forearm, distracting lettuce background color, and added new shadow.

Sorry Gray, I hope you don't mind...

And here's one for you to help ease the pain...

LJ

lol thanks, it reminds me of lettuce, I don't know what I was thinking... glad you like it. I go rest now.

awesome...

Hey without that black line to separate cleavage, there would be ANARCHY! Is that what you want?!

...booya!

Sorry couldn't help myself...

reference is in the link

Hope you like her Gray, she took a little longer because I almost forgot the cape!

LJ

50? Hey watch it! You mean level 50 right?

yay, vindication... i love when the client is happy... i'm gonna do my Sally Field Oscar speech now.