Jordan_Yen
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Personally, I don't know where to put the line since I can't remember how easy it is to find the 60 day information. The reason this conversation started is someone said "they should have read it, it's their fault" and I didn't think it was so simple. It sounds like we've reached an agreementOriginally Posted by Kitsune9tails
I agree that the more severe the consequences, up to a point the more effort to warn the player.
But where do you draw the line?
It's not a simple call, is all I'm saying
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Quote:ExactlyOriginally Posted by Kitsune9tails
There is a minimum ("it's somewhere in the manual") and a maximum ("You must click through these three dialogue boxes signifying your understanding before you can proceed") to the lengths you should go to make a player properly informed of their choices.
Where one chooses to land between the two is really a matter of style.
My only real point in this whole thing is that everyone is different. Some psychotically read everything they see. Others prefer to figure it out as they go. I don't think the consequences should be that severe for people who choose not to read the manual (or at least not read it in depth). It's a game after all, not a shipping yard crane.
Some would say wiping someone's market queue isn't very severe, I think it is. Maybe we won't agree on that point, but if we can agree that severe consequences should have some extra efforts to warn player (ex, the VERY obvious PVP zone warnings when entering the zone), then we don't really think that differently after all. -
Quote:Which is the responsible person's method. I just think that there's nothing wrong with asking while some other people seem to disagree.Originally Posted by Emberly
I'll ask, but I'll also clam up and accept it was my error the second someone shows me something that I ought to have read but didn't out of laziness or haste.
But that's not what I'm talking about. Is the market 60 day limit "right in front of you" or in pages of data, several clicks away? The answer to the question would determine if anything need be done or not.Quote:Not a great analogy. We're talking about people who can't be arsed to read what's right in front of them, or a button click away. Presumably this additional market info would not be buried somewhere in the EULA or carved into a stone and buried in the mud of the Nile, or otherwise unavailable to us. -
Quote:It's hard to argue with your point that responsibility is important, but I'm going to try to anyway just because it's not so black and white. Do YOU read all terms of service agreements for all services, all websites, all contracts, all products, all of everything you do? Do you fully understand what each and every one of them says? When you get nailed by a fee, a charge, or a consequence that you didn't understand, don't you feel justified in asking for a refund, an extension, or some leniency?Originally Posted by Talen Lee
If you can leave something untouched for sixty days, just how much can you have valued it? Just how important could it possibly have been to you if you could post it and not check it for sixty days? Have not used the market on that character at all for sixty days?
Real life getting in the way, sure - deployments and whatnot do, in fact, happen. But at the same time, is your fake parts of your fake toys in a fake auction house in a fake world really something that merits this high rhetoric?
I guess my thought on the matter is, if it mattered to you, you'd have paid some attention. Same is true of those people who deliberately made farms and failed to read the text saying they shouldn't make farms. You have nobody to blame for your own behaviour but yourself. And the 'punishment' for your ignorance is clearly very minor.
Taking advantage of people's inability to read or understand fine print was freecreditreport.com's business model and they made millions off people that way. And yet they were slapped by a class-action lawsuit because people know that when you say free all over your ads, in huge print all over the place, and even in the name of your company, but then in the legal print somewhere tell them "well no, not really", it's just not fair.
I'm NOT saying that's how it is in the game, but the question we should ask is have we done enough to make it clear what will happen? Because the wrong answer is to just say "it was written SOMEWHERE and therefore it's your fault". Ever read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?
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New comic!
http://www.jordans-town.com/comics/comic029
I've been wanting to start a villain side comic threat for a while and this is the very tip of the iceberg
Next up! More catgirls! -
Quote:I wasn't asking for sympathy, but I was trying to explain why people might be that way. It's a big game with a lot of parts. All I'm advocating is that they have some kind of second chance system. Not everything has to be "you should have read it and therefore maximum consequence on the first mistake!"Originally Posted by Talen Lee
Yeah, see, this is where you lost my sympathy when you complained about not having the time to read text designed for your information in a video game you choose to play.
If we're talking, say, real life safety management I might have more sympathy, but, we're very much not.
Both in life and in video games, a little humanity is preferred. -
Quote:Did you use a credit card to purchase it? If so, there are federal protections and several that you bank probably offers related to fraudulent or otherwise unsatisfactory purchases. Look into "charge backs".Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
What makes you think that, if there IS evidence, it's solid enough to act upon?
In an electronic auction house, do you KNOW who and what you're dealing with?
Only in very general terms.
Is there the possibility that the things you're bidding on could be stolen or otherwise ill-gotten?
YEP!
Take a look at EBay.
A couple years back I bought a laptop off EBay. When I tried to get the laptop serviced, I found out that it was stolen and was forced to surrender it to the police.
EBay provided no relief. Nor would the seller. I sued the seller, won, and STILL didn't get my money back.
I've provided my evidence to other people who were looking to use EBay.
Yet many of them still did. And thousands of people use EBay every day.
So how, EXACTLY is WW/BM dealings any different? -
Quote:I'd like to speak in favor of the gnashers. Not everyone has time to read everything. Not everything read is correctly understood. Not everything understood is correctly retained.Originally Posted by Talen Lee
Your post seems to think there's only a binary set of options here; a massive overload of information, or the tiny window we have. There are many steps along this possible gradient.
Then again, the 'delete in 60' rule of the market was something that I sincerely, sincerely miss, since I loved watching people gnash their teeth and whine when they failed to read something that they were told to read. Much like the farm-creators in AE, I suppose.
Humans are funny that way and it's not necessarily their fault. All consequences within our control should be tempered by these truths. -
Quote:Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
Yeah, I remember the old one, and of course there's the new one. I WOULD actually like to see that drastic of a change (especially for Boomtown, the Hollows (though it's been done recently, so I can let it go somewhat), Perez, etc. Especially Boomtown though, no real city would leave a mess like that, sure the first and second Rikti War slowed them down, but it's a hive of scum and villainy, they need to revamp it :P
I used to run past a lot of the city, or got in the habit of O-porting, Base Porting, D Porting, Mission Transporting, Wentworth's Transporting everywhere, and doing stuff as fast as I could. Since UM went in, I and my group have made it a point to try and get to places as much as we can the "old fashioned" way. Either flying through zone connectors, or using the tram, admiring the scenery again, really appriciating the game. Unless we're OOC pressed for time (or sometimes ICly pressed, where it makes sense story-wise) we don't use the porters that much, and we've really been enjoying that. If the other zones got a more "UM" upgrade, that'd be even more awesome. We wouldn't want the overall age of the game to show in Galaxy and Mercy for example, compared to Praetoria.
I think that's awesome, but wanted to be very specific about what I'm suggesting (since this has been a gripe of mine for a while).
I don't need a graphics update, I need a design update. I want to see more realistice neighborhoods and buildings. In KR, the design is weird, Buildings usually have long alleyways between them going down a whole block. Trashcans and other things hide in the alleys. I think faultline might have a hotdog vendor or two, the rest of the city could use more details like that.
And of course I still want weather. Weather and seasons. -
Quote:YES YES YES YES YES!Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
Heck, some of us have tried to suggest they revamp and touch up (especially in lieu of Ultra Mode) the old zones, .
Remember Faultline. Old one sucked, new one is one of the best zones in the game. Not that I want to see that drastic of a change, but I'd really like to see some improvements like alleyways and stuff you'd see in real cities. Add more details, maybe a new building now and then.
It makes me sad that I just run by so much of the city like it wasn't there, but after a while, there's just not much to see
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Quote:I'm inclined to agree as well. Though the point of "you don't have to do it if you don't want to" does make sense, some of us are a bit obsessive and would do better not to have certain options availableOriginally Posted by Talen Lee
This is an interesting perspective, and has pulled me towards agreeing with you.
One thing I would like to see concerning markets which I think would increase supply on both sides immediately would be an accolade market transportation device. Not something that transports you, but something you could use to access your market screen from whereever you are. You could buy and sell salvage anywhere. No more runs to dump stuff and no more just deleting things other people might be able to use.
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Quote:Well I certainly would never want the game balanced for IOs! I like and respect the fact that they made it optional.Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
Thankfully, people with your point of view don't balance the game, or we'd all HAVE to use IOs to play top end content, then everyone would have to use Incarnates, then everything would have to use "Omegans" or whatever the next thing PS had to come up with to deal with the fact that IOs became like SOs so they relased Incarnate, then that became like SOs, so they released "Omegans" and so on and so on*. The entire point being, I personally like IOs and sets, but they are not "required" nor is the game balanced around them, thankfully, you can get along just fine on SOs. For the record I don't even LOOK at IOs until 35, until then it's not cost effective.
If the game was going to be balanced that way (a la WoW and every other MMO) they might as well raise the level cap, and end up at 90-100 in another 3-4 years, instead of just inventing new stuff. *
*= Anyone who reads this and is stupid enough to suggest I'm advocating for either "something beyond Incarnates, Omegans, or a level cap increase is a moron. Thank you.
I'm just surprised that people wouldn't take the option that's all
Especially considering that I think it's cheaper and easier plus better bonuses even from level 15 (which is when I start IO slotting). -
Quote:Well let me recommend my method. Until I get to 50, I don't really worry much about sets or getting "the right IOs". I slot only for straight enhancement to accuracy, damage etc, (with some exceptions for proc powers that are useful at any level). Every 20 levels or so I might replace some of the lowest ones (like some level 16s I placed long ago might be replaced at 30 or so).Originally Posted by Megajoule
I admit, I was draw by the allure of "slot once and never again, with cool set bonuses on top". But the market as it actually is doesn't work that way. Not a year ago, and certainly not now. I'd almost rather run to the SO store every five levels - at least you know they'll have everything you need, at prices that bear some relation to the kind of inf you get from the PvE game (rather than the self-feeding, inflationary PvP minigame) and you're done in three minutes, not three weeks.
I've actually begun to contemplate respeccing some of my characters out of IOs, and back to SOs, but that's probably a little too far to go in the name of ideological purity. Probably.
Only at 50 (or 47) do I start in earnest beginning to slot IO sets for perfection. I have a mid's planner file so I know exactly what to get and I"m patient. If it takes a few months to finally collect all the parts, so be it. You can put in bids and wait
And as for my sales pitch for IOs, check this out:
http://www.jordans-town.com/invention-origin -
Quote:Here's an odd line of thought that I wonder about. Since farmers (even those horrid gold farmers) will only have to work one side instead of two, won't this make their farming faster and more efficient and thus increase supply of items?Originally Posted by Redbone
Except that the reason many are so happy about the merger is the Red market wasn't producing enough stuff that people wanted. Therefore, combining the market means more people wanting stuff, but a smaller percentage of stuff being produced.
What we will likely see is a sudden, sharp rise in prices, followed by a slow decline to a stable (well, as stable as can be expected) price that is higher than the Blue Side's current prices and lower than those currently on the Red Side.
So, basically, a little bad for the Blues a lot of happy for the Reds (meaning characters, since most players play both sides). All in all, this is likely a push for me (and most people who regularly play both sides), my Reds can get stuff they want for less, my blues are fairly well established and can buy what they need (within reason) for the most part. -
Quote:Wow. What an odd concept to not use IOs. I guess if you really like having to reslot every few levels instead of only 3 times ever during a character's lifespan... And all those bonuses and extra powers... yeah, those all suck.Originally Posted by bpphantom
Finally! I don't have to stock up on wakies as the lone villain on TF's.
Meh to the market merge. I don't use IO sets really, so I don't care.
I guess I can see your point of view
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Quote:Agreed. The one I went to, the girl didn't even know they were doing the preorder. Big Bang Theory does more for City of Heroes right now:Originally Posted by DJ_Shecky
Well, I've stopped in about 5 different Gamestops around Chicago and haven't seen one promo or announcement in them about Going Rogue, let alone the special preorder. Sounds like Gamestop is dropping the ball.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fSaZIzcqe14/0.jpg (city of heroes and villains cutouts in the back)
http://shouldiwatchit.files.wordpres...sweatpants.jpg (Captain sweatpants, a recurring character, sports the Statesman star)
And in other news, I had no idea how popular BBT was with the geeks (though I should hardly be surprised):
http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl...=&oq=&gs_rfai= -
Quote:I mean I heard some people did some kind of pre-ordering that didn't count for the promotion through Gamestop (it was earlier in the thread). I'll check with Gamestop later today.Originally Posted by Decorum
What do you mean by "active"? When you pre-order, you put something down (or the whole thing...reports seem to vary from store to store) on it at GameStop and when the actual game comes in, you go pick it up (or possibly they can ship it to you). Nothing from it will be "active" until the stores get the box. Conceivably, the actual game will have GR started before you actually have the box in your hands. I'm expecting so for me.
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Dark Armor / Energy Melee (i17)
http://www.jordans-town.com/dark-arm...guide-by-saist
Willpower / Stone Melee tank (i17)
http://www.jordans-town.com/willpowe...guide-by-saist -
Quote:Is the preorder active now? Last I heard, people were able to pre-purchase the pre-order (some goofy Gamestop garbage) that didn't count and they'd have to remember to switch it to pre-order. Is the difference whether you pay or not? How do I know if I go to Gamestop if I did it right?Originally Posted by Tannim222
No, this pre-order from gamestop is only available now. Once GR goes live, the pre-order special is gone. If you currently have the game pre-ordered at gamestop, when you go in to buy your box, your receipt will have the pre-order code printed on it. You update your account with that code, and you get GR+all the gamestop goods virtual goods.
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Quote:SOmeone think of the poor people on crappy satellite connections. My family has the same problemOriginally Posted by BashfulBanshee
Thats truly unfortunate and a silly fee Tahquitz. Fair use indeed.
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Very complete guide! I wanted to provide as evidence an experience I had yesterday after someone asked about the new Vigilance. I wanted to see if I could solo faster so I put my difficulty at +1 for a team size of 8 (that's right... on a DEFENDER).
It was cake.
The key strategy (and one I don't see in your guide) is to drop tar patch, stealth close-ish to a huge group of enemies, target one in the back, use Darkest Night. Run.
Run around a corner or through a door (wherever you dropped Tar Patch). The enemies will come running, but will pile up on the patch (which puts them ALL in range of the DN debuff!)
You can then pop out and decimate them (which is even faster now with the new Vigilance).
Using this technique, I was able to mow down huge mobs of Longbow with NO danger. I never dropped below 80% life and I wasn't healing (though fluffy did some).
If you're interested in comparing notes, check out my D3 guide here:
http://www.jordans-town.com/jordan-basics -
Quote:I agree that they did a good job having something fun that doesn't hurt the regulars. That's why it's a GOOD thing you can't sell or transfer them.Originally Posted by Rylas
Considering most vets I know tend to get through the first 20 levels in no time at all, I can't see why anyone would be upset about these enhancements being in a separate purchase. I wouldn't want them, myself, considering they wouldn't be that useful in the IO builds I make. The enhancements, while nice during the first 20 levels, are pretty weak sauce to a lot of vet players. It's nothing to get bent out of shape for.
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Quote:How did you lose? It's 10 dollars more for a free month and tons of goodies. That puts you at being paid 5 dollars in value for taking the freebies that others have to pay for.Originally Posted by Da_Captain
You too? Yeah, I could careless about getting early access to stuff that was guaranteed. I am still playing around with too much of the old stuff to try to play around with some new stuff. I was going to wait anyway because I didn't want to pay an extra price to get the included goodies in the complete collection, guess I kinda lost on that one, because it seems like it might have lost on that one, I think it is cheaper to buy online from NC.
From the looks of the enhancements though I see a couple of problems
- Doesn't proc after level 20 (pretty big one)
- Only for new toons (That kinda sucks, also kinda hints that this probably wasn't meant for veteran players)
On a positive note new toons with the enhancements will have some serious advantages.
Also, if the only thing the enhancements does is give you a bit of an advantage at the early levels, I still think that's pretty cool. Kind of like the Safeguard/Mayhem travel packs. That really made low level content suck less
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Quote:Really!? Oh joyOriginally Posted by Aggelakis
Preordering through Gamestop gets you everything in the 6.99 goodie pack. The 6.99 goodie pack is for people who prepurchased the basic expansion through NCsoft, so they can get the costume bits and stuff. If you preorder through Gamestop, you don't have to buy anything else to get all the goodies.
Go in game and type [Shadowy Presence].
I'm so glad I waited for DP and DS -
Quote:Are there different bonuses going through NCsoft directly?Originally Posted by Megajoule
Same here.
And for that matter, I'm probably going to pre-order through the regular NCsoft site rather than take this promotion. I'm an established player, I have no real use for these weird mutant (not Origin) enhancements, and I'd rather my money go straight to the studio and publisher than have some of it siphoned off by middlemen/marketing partners.
I'm all about supporting the game, but I'm not going to turn down free goodies if the price is the same.
Edit: I just checked out the Complete Edition set on Amazon and I can see that there are. Sounds like the best option would be to purchase from Gamestop and add the bonuses for 6.99 each. Then I get all the awesome goodies
I don't suppose anyone has information on the Shadowy Presence invisibility power?