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Last night I sidekicked a scrapper on my missions. My attacks are pretty well slotted and are full with SOs. My sidekick scrapper is at the DO level. So even if his attacks were all 6 slotted they would not get the same benefits my attacks do (having at least 3 dmg SOs each).

Even when I had Rage running my sidekick was doing more damage. It got a lot closer but he was still doing much greater damage. I didn't run out of END as quickly but that is just due to the fact that I am running on SOs while he is running on DOs

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Rage kind of gave you away there. It would help some if its not always the worst Tanker set that is used to compare with. Its somewhat telling that its always the best Scrappers and the worst Tankers used in comparison.

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Sorry but that is a lame response. The scrapper in question was MA by the way. What would you cosider a valid comparison then?

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1) Tanks damage from my experience isn't actually that much lower then scrappers if you invest the slots in them so adding damage per hit may be excessive. This does disallow criticals but from experience criticals don't pop up often enough to be relied on.

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Not that I want to get into this particular arguement (okay perhaps I do) but this is so not true from my experience.

Last night I sidekicked a scrapper on my missions. My attacks are pretty well slotted and are full with SOs. My sidekick scrapper is at the DO level. So even if his attacks were all 6 slotted they would not get the same benefits my attacks do (having at least 3 dmg SOs each).

Even when I had Rage running my sidekick was doing more damage. It got a lot closer but he was still doing much greater damage. I didn't run out of END as quickly but that is just due to the fact that I am running on SOs while he is running on DOs

Face it. Statesman has spoken on this issue. They will have data mined it. They keep saying people whining on boards doesn't inform their opinions. It might get them to look at an issue but they will check their logs to see the truth of it.

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2. The Tanker's defense stats can be matched by a properly slotted Scrapper - but the Tanker can not approach the Scrapper in damage.

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Thank heavens a Dev has finally said this. Perhaps now we can "Officially" consign this arguement to the glue factory with the other dead horses.


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1. Tankers will get a "provoke" like AOE effect on their melee attacks. The more a Tanker lands his blows, the more and more mobs he'll attract. The bonus here is that it's not exactly like Provoke (it's not ranged) - but it makes a lot of sense. Some huge monstrosity is bashing the heads of a villain group - they're going to get more and more concerned about taking him/her out....

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If I Provoke things by hitting them I will not mind being a Provoke-bot


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2. As a Tanker lands more and more blows, he'll start doing more and more damage. The longer the fight, the more powerful the Tanker becomes.

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Fabulous. This will be great for the solo tank. My only concerns are for the slower powersets like Axe and Mace and that it will make rooted defenses even MORE annoying.

I am so glad you linked this to hitting things and not to how much damage we have taken. BIG TICK!

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Simplifying my opinions for the record:
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-Equal DPS amongst the tankers if it doesn’t exist already: Good idea.
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-Slowing down what are already only moderately paced super-strength attacks: Bad idea.
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-Stripping powers of their alternate effects to trade in for more damage: Bad idea.
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-Fixing the AoE problem sometime in the next 5 minutes: Good idea.
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-Ditching the concept that immobilizing your character to make use of a power is even remotely fun: Good idea.
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-Giving the players a /knockback powername 0/1 toggle to satisfy knockback/knockdown lovers instead of the unfair nerf we got stuck with: Good idea.

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Odd. I agree with all that yet I can read your posts and disagree with almost everything you say. I'm not suggesting either of us is being disingenuous just that we both want the same think through different routes.

You might have noticed in my earlier posts where I said I had only just got Rage. Well the more I play with it the more I decide you are completely right. That disorient has got to go.

Either the disorient has got to go or I can only use it against foes that don't do stun. Lets see? That would be Skyraiders. I don't think I'm getting any more skyraiders missions so I guess I am just not using it.

Okay the first time it killed me was my fault. I messed up my timing. However since then it has killed me three times due to stuns getting through US. So thats four deaths in total! I am a cautious player I am not sure this character has died that many times before!

Shame really because otherwise the power is cool. I actually felt a bit "comic book". I have also noticed that the power actually has a net effect of slowing me down (and thats even before I factor in the debt).

Debt, I don't have debt! What will my friends say?

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Krunch, 39 is the highest SS/Inv Tanker I’ve had (and life up to that point seemed fine

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Wow I am impressed. I hate US but felt I could no longer avoid it at level 26 when sent Lost Hunting in TV. Those large multi-mezzing mobs would completely overwhelm any psi-defense my defender friends provided me. So I gave in and picked up US

I am also jolly impressed by the numbers of people in this thread without Provoke and Taunt. Bravo! Tankers after my own heart!

Oh and I never wanted to be the Hulk, I wanted to be Captain Britain (as written my Moore not Claremont *spit* )

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The game improved for whom? For you? Because it’s not for me. I don’t consider these improvements.
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And to be frank, you don’t seem to want to play City of Heroes version of a Tanker. You seem more interested in playing an archetype that doesn’t exist that you want to call Tanker. So again, with the archetypes options in mind, why did you choose an existing archetype you didn’t want to play? Because you were hopeful that you could convince the developers to modify it for you?

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I am really sorry you feel this way but there is no point berating Krunch over the issue. He has made an extremely good effort at canvassing everyone's opinions and producing this compromise.

If you don't like it, feel free to post your ideas but don't attack Krunch. He has done a great job at arriving at some form of consensus.

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I don't want Super Strength adjusted so that you can make another perverse Tanker-Scrapper combo. Its the min-maxers who calculated the loss in DPS due to knockback that almost cost Super Strength its defining cool feature: Knockback.

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You are so wrong here! I am a Champions player. I usually play a Brick, its my favourite character type. If I laid out my character design here you would see a very standard Tank build except that it has NO Taunt and NO Provoke.

But you know what we have to live in Paragon City. This means that as much as I HATE Unyielding Stance I can't survive with out it. All my suggestions have one thing in mind and that is making my characters more fun. There is no god mode hidden in those proposed changes on page 1. Just a power set that would be a damn site more playable.

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Does Knockdown not knockback

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I have handclap on my long time retired tanker, and it does knockback, not knockdown.

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I was talking about why Mob Handclap works. Mob Handclap seems to do Knockdown while Hero Handclap does Knockback.

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A note i have not seen mentioned (or missed badly) in this thread is that the handclap sugestion of duration does not seems to note that this power consumes a lot of endurance. Even sloted, if you used it every 10 seconds for a fight you would run out of end very fast. Not sure how it is on test now, though.

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Definately. For Handclap to be a Provoke replacement (which I think it should) it needs to be low end and fast recharge.


The problem with Handclap as it stands is that by the time you can select it you don't need or want a "get away from me" power. However Handclap works great for Ancestrial Spirits and Tank Smashers. Why is that?
<ul type="square">[*]Does Knockdown not knockback[*]Heroes often have toggles[*]Heroes can be hit while disorientated (unlike villains)[/list]
So IMO it doesn't work as it stands but I do like the concept. So if you turn it into a Provoke replacement I will get the power next even level

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It’s not like we’re going to do any power leveling with Handclap as a taunt.

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Hahaha. Can't argue with that!

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Question: I don't have Unstoppable (not high enough) but wouldn't a Rage End drain clash with Unstoppable Ends drain?
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I this this is a legitimate question since most SS are Inv/SS.

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Unstoppable regenerated endurance not drains it.

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May bad! I thought it left you drained. Blame the manual

Question: I don't have Unstoppable (not high enough) but wouldn't a Rage End drain clash with Unstoppable Ends drain?

I this this is a legitimate question since most SS are Inv/SS.

I am happy with Rage as its stands but the rest gets my vote.

EDIT: Therefore I'd vote for the 1Mag disorient option.

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Client modifications are against the Coh Terms of Service agreement found here.
I will be removing all posts/threads about client modification as a result.

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A bad decision. Many games support modding to some degree or another. The map patch was a great addition.

I hope Cryptic review this position in the near future.