Hoist

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To everyone taking notes, ^^ this is what happens when people run out of real things to say on a subject.

Icarus,
thanks for letting us know when you have run out of material!
Clearly, the question has been answered.

To others, I knew that PLing is cheating. I posed the question to provoke debate. There is no question that being able to earn ex while away from your computer is wrong in the sense of "playing" a game.
However, I have gained some sympathy for people and their alts. It would be nice to have options for those people. I like the idea that you can have an alt that is the same level to an existing character. However, few games of any kind allow you to restart in the middle, so I'm not sure if that's fair either.

Anyway, I'm amazed at the amount of attention this subject got and the amount of people that continued to post. It was pretty interesting for my first and possiblly last post!

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Aldarian, whether you agree with PL'ing or not, IT IS NOT CHEATING. Please go back and read what has been posted by Statesman and alse read the quotes from his interview at Gen Con. It is not cheating! You don't agree with it, that's fine. Come up with a solution better than, your all cheaters. It is not cheating. Exploiting the game system, yes, cheating, no. Find a way to be constructive and provide a solution before you call someone a cheater. And why ask the question and start this thread if your mind was already made up?

To Citizen Pain:
In the Gen Con interview he is referring to bugs in the game and the example is smoke grenade stacking. In his statement in this thread and in the interview he frowns upon boring game play, but if you want to power level, go ahead. They are alse making mobs in the higher level game more difficult. For example, making the mobs have more hit points. This will make power leveling HARDER. Power leveling is not a cheat and to call it that is wrong. To excuse other players of cheating for "exploiting" the system is wrong. And for most people who are sitting at the train being power leveled, they are not doing a boring activity. Some are playing with hero planner to see how they want to build there character, some are surfing the net and reading the boards, and some are not even at there computer. A friend is doing them a favor while they are at work, or have called it an early night. They are making all of this harder to do. But to do away with this, would be to get rid of the SK system or make changes to the pre-existing system in place. To make those changes takes time. IF they make those changes, folks on the power leveling side will find another way. It's called maximizing within the rules. It happens everywhere.

To Alderian: By coming back into your thread and not adding anything of worth except to say that the cheaters are wiggling on a hook, you are trolling. You asked what that is, and that is it. It only takes a little more effort to rationally explain your views.

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Here's my stance...

It's the developers job to ensure that fun play equals a reward.

It's not fun if you level up by doing nothing. Now, there will always be an element of this - but in general, spawns are based on team size. Which means that an extra person on your team that is not contributing anything to the battle is a severe detriment. BUT our high level game is a little too easy - which means that high level characters can team up with low level characters - go out and do missions/street sweep - with a high degree of success.

But we are going to be ratcheting up the difficulty of higher levels, meaning that someone trying to "power level" someone will find it more challenging. If someone wants to do that, bravo, but I think we'll see the issue resolve itself....

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States: If you ever get a chance to read this, I would like to thank you for posting a response in this thread. Not to show who is right or wrong, but just to show that you guys are paying attention to the community is awesome.

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Reading between the lines in this case means making up your own interpretation of question that was carefully worded to get a response he was looking for. You need to remember that he asked if it was intended behavior in the same sentence. There is no way to know which question Statesman actually answered. As I said, he asked a very carefully worded question. Why didn't he ask the real question which is "Is Powerleveling cheating?" I know why he didn't. Ninja knows why he didn't. He didn't ask it because Statesman would have had to have said, "no, it's not cheating." Now, he might well have said he didn't like it in addition. But, the term "powerleveling" entails a heck of a lot more then the specific instance that Ninja asked about.

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It clearly goes hand in hand with Jack's Gencon Q&A session in which he was asked what an exploit was, and his reply was "I consider an exploit to be anything that rewards boring behavior."

Add those two statements together and consider what you really think Statesman's position is on this subject.

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I finally found what I was looking for and it was from reading this post, so thank you poster. I did a search for "gencon q&a" which was where Statesman responded to how he felt about power leveling and other stuff. And here is a Quote from the transcript.

"Various misc. things that came up during the QA, but were not direct answers:
- The Super Secret Non Combat System will be in Issue 3
- I do not care how fast people level. The key criteria is that it must be FUN, so that you'll want to keep playing even after you've leveled up your character.
- I consider an exploit to be anything that rewards boring behavior. The Smoke Grenade bug is an example - it's about as fun as "poking yourself in the eye" (direct quote) but people do it since they level faster.
- Eventually instanced missions may have an interactive environment, since griefing won't be as much of a problem."

I doubt this will clear anything up for anyone, but I'm just happy that I found it.

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Sorry about the misspelling.
I was writing something about how economics affects the "morale" of the poor. Writing too many things at once.

A plethora of sound reasons have been give already. The other side just keeps saying stuff about me, about how it affects no one, and that it is part of the rules. Those aren't reasons.

My bet is though that if people stop cheating both their morale and morals will increase.

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Actually I have yet to call you a name and I am on the other "side" of this argument. I have posted examples and facts about the situation and you have yet to respond to any of my posts. It leads me to believe that you may be trying to incite argument or "trolling". You may not, but you only respond to those that are frustrated with you.

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Frankly Miir,

I'm a 37 year old clinical psychologist from Philadelphia.
I have a masters in health car admin.
A masters in counseling psychology
A masters in clinical psychology
A doctorate in clinical psychology
I have 15 years experience in the field of psychology.
I like people that take things seriously.
I never cheated to get any of those degrees.
I enjoy video games because they take me away from the human [censored] pile that I am used to dealing with. Can I get any more honest than that?
More importantly, what do you think about the Statesman?

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I think Statesman is a great guy and I really enjoy his dream that made this game. But, that's not what you were referring too. Statesman stating in response to someone else's PM is in reference to how the game gets easier in the later levels(32+) and that they are working on upping mob hit points and making them harder. That is what he is referring too. That also references that if Player A sidekicks with Player B and they are teamed with Player C who is at the top of the 5 level mark and they are taking higher level mobs, it is going to be really hard for Player C. This will slow down the power leveling, but it wont stop it. And please, please, stop referring to what people are doing in game to extreme real life situations like referring to those of us who do not agree with you as criminals and children who do not know the difference between cheating and maximizing a game. You lose all credibilty in your argument, I believe that even though I do not agree with you, that your opinion matters as well. At least this thread as remained entertaining.

I would just like to point out that I side kick my scrapper who is level 20 to my friend who is level 33. I have stealth and as long as I am not attacking, the mobs cannot see me. My friend is doing all the work and helping me to level. We chat the whole time and I am even chatting with others in my SG and on my friends list. We are enjoying the game and my friend is helping me out. Am I cheating you? No. This is how the game is intended. If you are mad about people sitting at the tram and not even moving, that's fine. That's your opinion. But based on how the game is set-up it is not cheating, except to cheat themselves out of a very cool game. The odd thing is I think Cuppajo may be on vacation or something, because for the amount of trolling and flaming this post has caused from both sides of the argument I am suprised this thread has not been nerfed yet.

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My point was well made by Feiwrong. Many of you guys are both cheaters and liars. Fei is willing to try to win his point by lying. So he is both a cheater and a liar.
I got annoyed by seeing players level at the station after spending weeks trying to level, which feels good, and supporting my fellow players. My anger is of an innocent nature. Plus I would not want to level that way because I would miss much of the story.
I first learned of Pling after a guy solicited me to sk him and stand in the station while he leveled a character that he was going to sell to someone. I didn't even know what this was. That was two weeks ago and since then my opinion formed and now I believe that is cheating.

Erratic there is nothing wrong with using sound arguments. However, I have to say that I simply don't like cheating and honestly do not feel envy. Sorry if I insulted you but this has been going on all day.

Interesting!
I checked EBay out and there is a level 50 Blaster going for $275! So, if anyone would like to cheat in this way please check it out. After you spend the money you can I guess do nothing and quit. What fun.

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Now you are comparing PL'ing to selling things on EBay and calling people cheaters and liars. A difference in opinion does not make folks like Erratic or myself cheaters and liars. Selling on Ebay = Wrong. PL'ing = not wrong. You don't want someone soliciting you to power level them? I agree with you. I am not doing the work for someone else. A friend of mine wants to play the game and get to the same level as me, lets go. There's the difference. People that want to be power leveled by strangers and are harrassing with tells and spamming the broadcast channels are a different part of this argument altogether. They are missing out on a great game. And if they are that does not affect my gameplay at all.

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Kazarak, NinjaPirate, Thanks for the support. However, we are now seeing the lying/denial side of the cheaters. This could go on forever and I hope that it does because maybe the designers will see the post and think about it.

To those out there if you did cheat that’s OK, because what can you do about it now. I’m more concerned about stopping it than making people feel badly about what they did in the past. Let’s look toward the future.

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Your opinion on the topic is yours to have, but to continually deny yourselves that you are being jealous about something is ludicrous. PL'ing is not an exploit. The devs put this in the game so that if I have been playing for many months and now my friend discovers the game and wants to play with me, he can side kick and we can enjoy the game. The lower level guy is going to get massive amounts of XP in relation to his level and is going to be able to level up. If you are referring to my friend being SK'ed to another friend of my same level or within the level gap and then only the SK and me are on the same team and I am killing massive amounts or creatures so that he can get XP, that is not an exploit or a bug. It is part of the game. You and others have posted that you do not agree with this ethically. That's fine. But it's not a bug or an exploit. And comparing the game and what others are doing in game to level to REAL LIFE situations of crime and abuse against humanity is way out of control. Never compare someone else power leveling to **** or robbery. They do not belong together.

The devs have already stated that PL'ing is not cheating. This topic comes up once a week. Just do a search and find your answers. No, not cheating. Are they enjoying the game? I don't know, but more power to you if your friends can PL you or you are rolling an ALT because you have already reached 50 and would like to play with some new powers and not have to go through all the kill stealing at the low levels. P.S. I think the OP is trolling. IMO.