Ericose

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Your logic is flawed. If the devs are going to do this (and I have to agree that is will happen, since I believe the devs have no interest in any playtesting other than seeing if the code works as they plan). There is no point in attempting to find the "holes" since the entire concept is far worse than whatever holes are created.

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I disagree with you. This statement on the Regen thread is why.


[/ QUOTE ]While that is clearly stated, I am unaware of any change since issue 2 that has been plainly stated as a bad idea by what (at least to me) seemed a majority of posters (at least) were not in favor of and removed as a result. I'll believe it when I see it. I would believe it more if you ( or anyone) can point to a couple or recalled changes (not tweaks)[ QUOTE ]

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I don't know about babbage but octo XP seems to have been nerfed on test to the point of not being worthwhile on test so I'm not too concerned about that. Since you are under the impression that the devs are going to push towards more missions, then do what the devs are obviously (as you have pointed out) pushing towards and stop playing defenders or controllers. MAYBE when the datamining shows that there are no defenders or controllers left they might change it back ( like so many of issue 3's "features")

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I'd heard nothing about the octopus exp being changed. Where, when how? The only change to exp I'd seen noted was Hatched Krakens.

[/ QUOTE ] I tried it on a whim, while testing a respec (which is what I use the test server for) . On live I got around 2k or so, on test I got around 600 ( all per tentacle) with less teams around ( it was just ours). Perhaps it was the amount of damage I did was less (and maybe then less xp) but it seems capped at like 655. [ QUOTE ]


In any case, I think the leash is a poor control on what the devs want to control. I also feel that it'd be better to go after the root of the problems, rather than trimming them at the top where they'll just grow up in other cracks like a weed.

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I think at the root of the problem is the fact that this is not an issue. At best there is a minority complaining about broadcasting tells for PL. The jerks that hit me with SB off the train annoy me far worse than broadcasts. I think that the supposed "lag" reason is nonsense since the "fix" is to have the inactive players active (and my thinking is an inactive players causes less stress on the system then an active one). If the reason was risk vs reward, controllers blasters and defenders would be getting larger xpshares since it's far riskier for them out there then for the averager tanker and scrapper.

The #1 reason a change should be made is because it makes the game more fun. I haven't seen anyone argue that somehow this change makes the game more fun.

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I can't believe that there are still people here who are posting things like, "This won't fix PL'ing, so don't do it!" and "Why bother trying to stop PL'ing?"

Get the point, people: THE DEVS ARE GOING TO DO THIS.

The devs perceive powerleveling to be a problem. Period. No further discussion of whether PL'ing is a problem is necessary.

After over 200 pages of various comments, suggestions, and complaints, the "XP leash/death timer" is still going to be implemented with Issue 4. Period. No alternative strategies for defeating PL'ing are needed.

So, GIVEN these two things -- PL'ing is a problem, and the "XP leash/death timer" is the devs' current solution to the problem -- the ONLY thing that should be concentrated on here is finding whatever "holes" in the solution there are and suggesting patches for them.


[/ QUOTE ] Your logic is flawed. If the devs are going to do this (and I have to agree that is will happen, since I believe the devs have no interest in any playtesting other than seeing if the code works as they plan). There is no point in attempting to find the "holes" since the entire concept is far worse than whatever holes are created.[ QUOTE ]

And along those lines, we also need to focus on what the devs have actually said about how the current solution works.

This is what Statesman has posted:

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If a player is in a zone, did NO damage in a combat and has been dead for more than a minute, he receives no XP. If a player is more than 300 ft. away from the mob when it’s defeated and did NO damage, he receives no XP. Otherwise, the player receives his full share of XP.

If players are on a mission map, they always receive their full shares. There’s no distance limitation. Teams can split up in maps – players can be separated by elevators – everyone receives their XP.

This system does not affect Mission rewards....

Now, let me clarify the situation with Badges and Defeat tasks. As long as you or any of your teammates are within 200 ft. of the defeated mob, EVERYONE on the team gets credit. This is not a change in Issue 4; this is the way that it currently works....

As long as someone on your team gets XP for a kill, the entire team will get credit towards a Defeat X mission or a Badge count even if they don't get the XP....

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Please take note of the italicized portion, because it's incredibly important. What I interpret the italicized portion to mean is that there is no difference between XP collection in Issue 3 and XP collection in Issue 4 if you are in a mission. In short, the "XP leash/death timer" solution is ONLY being applied to zones.

So, are there any "holes" in the solution as understood according to how the devs have said the solution works?

I have only found one "hole" so far: Giant Monsters in zones. Consider the following scenario:

You enter into a fight with Babbage in Skyway City. You and 50 other heroes are fighting him tooth and nail. You get to the point where Babbage is close to being defeated, and he kills you. If you did NO damage to Babbage during the fight, you now have the following options:

1) Pray that there is a defender around to rez you.
2) Pray that you have an Awaken or that somebody gives you an Awaken.
3) Pray that Babbage is killed within one minute.
4) Pray that you can go to the hospital AND hurry back to within 300' of Babbage before Babbage is defeated.

Since Scrappers and Blasters earn their pay by dealing damage, the scenario above is least likely to affect them. Tankers and Controllers, too, tend to spend at least some of their time on average dealing damage, so this scenario is only a little more likely to affect them. Defenders, of course, are the least likely to deal damage to a Giant Monster since they will be focusing on keeping their teammates alive, so they are the most likely to encounter this scenario. However, my point is that anyone of any AT would would be utterly hosed if the above scenario were to befall them, and I know that if I were to lose out on XP just because I took the alpha hit or I kept my team alive instead of doing damage, I would be beyond insane with rage.

My proposal? The devs should ensure that if you're on a team that fights a Giant Monster in a zone, you are guaranteed your share of the XP from the kill according to current Issue 3 constraints.


[/ QUOTE ] I don't know about babbage but octo XP seems to have been nerfed on test to the point of not being worthwhile on test so I'm not too concerned about that. Since you are under the impression that the devs are going to push towards more missions, then do what the devs are obviously (as you have pointed out) pushing towards and stop playing defenders or controllers. MAYBE when the datamining shows that there are no defenders or controllers left they might change it back ( like so many of issue 3's "features")

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Going to your original trainer when you hit 50 is becoming a tradition on Justice.

As for the changes and peoples right to do whatever they want...
Statesman and Cryptic studios have designed this game. They have decided that they want to cut down on the PLing, I dont think they ever invisioned a cure all to utterly stop it. But they designed it and they don't want people PLing, is that so hard to understand?


[/ QUOTE ] That point is quite clear, what isn't clear at all is why [ QUOTE ]

Granted, their legal does not say anything about PLing, but its not a legal issue. Its a design issue. If you guys want a MMO that lets you PL and have no one give you any static about it....go make your own/play someone else's. It is Statesman's and Cryptics product, and they can do with it as they please. You can stop paying at your leisure.

[/ QUOTE ] oh and I was thinking that the best interest of Cryptic and States would be to keep players playing the game- my bad [ QUOTE ]

One issue that I have not seen to much of is the fact that the arena is coming, and that one is in Talos and one is in PI...two of the biggest PL zones in the game. I think part of this effort is to cut down on the TREMENDOUS lag that will be encountered when traveling in these zones with all of that extra traffic.

[/ QUOTE ] So if I understand you, you somehow think that more lag is produced when players just stand around, than if those same players are interacting with the zone? I would think all that extra traffic would increase lag rather than decrease it. If lag was the biggest concern, PLing would be encouraged rather than discouraged since an inactive player would create less impact than an active one[ QUOTE ]


I for one think that PLing and people that do are a joke, and lie to themselves even:
"I don't want to have to experience that content again." How much content are you experiencing at the tram for three hours?

[/ QUOTE ]hmm 3 hours of boredom chatting, or 3 weeks (or more) of boredom replaying the same content....I'll take the 3 hours please[ QUOTE ]
If all that content is boring pre 50, then why play COH?

[/ QUOTE ]It was fun the first time but I'd like to try a new AT[ QUOTE ]
are you aware of how much post 50 content there is?

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I wish Statesman would make a PLing server. As soon as you log in, make a toon already at 50, name it, then the respec screen comes up, put slots on all your powers, enter gameplay, hit ghost falcon and load yourself up with Hami-o's, and go nutz in PvP. Leave the rest of the people that enjoy the content to our zones, you go do your thing elsewhere.

[/ QUOTE ] Since the people that are not- interacting just standing around aren't stopping you from enjoying your content, are already leaveing you alone, I guess that goal has been accomplished[ QUOTE ]

Everyone is coming up with instances and "what ifs" for singular events and issues, but overall, IF you play the game the way States/Cryptic want us to play, then you should have little to no problems.

[/ QUOTE ]I think that is the most irksome thing of all. I don't need anyone to tell me how I am supposed to be playing. It's one thing if I am somehow exploiting a bug. This isn't a bugfix. It's a rulechange to force you to play a certain way. Not because it's causing a problem, but because it's not liked. Not that it's not disliked by the playerbase at large, but the developers don't like it. Fundamentally this seems flawed [ QUOTE ]

All the snivelers can quit COH, go play WoW, you can max a toon in 3 weeks. Go play EQ and fight Orcs and Goblins...never seen that stuff before...all new content...ooooo loook A DRAGON!!! OMG LOOK...Matrix Online!!! Can you PL in these games? Most of the people that I know that have gone to play those games always come back to COH for some reason.


[/ QUOTE ]yes you can PL in all those games, so PLing isn't the reason folks are lookng elsewhere[ QUOTE ]

All PLers justify finding loopholes in the design as their right to do it, and States has every right to go ahead and close one or two if he feels like it, and you have every right to leave and play something else. This will not stop PLing, but it is a start in the right direction. If you don't like the program, change the channel. Look at all the previous PL threads, there are many different people who don't like or care about it, but always a select few that champion PLing over and over. Wonder why the numbers are so far apart?

[/ QUOTE ] probably because most ( like me) don't think PLing affects my play in any way and there might be valid reasons to have it occuring. I've only found a select few that actively don't like it. I've read much of the threads about this topic and I have yet to see a reason that the "I hate PLing" group has that couldn't be fixed with a far less intrusive tweak.[ QUOTE ]
Maybe Statesman is just doing what a majority of players, that pay their $15 a month too, already want him to do?

[/ QUOTE ]I would submit that most have shown that they don't care about PLing but do care about this change.

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Meaning? THIS DOES NOT AFFECT YOU ONE LITTLE BIT IF YOU ARE HUNTING LIKE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE!

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Sorry I guess my copy of the game was missing the "hunting rules" Here I was thinking I purchased a game where I get to figure out how to make progress...

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What rules? What the hell are you talking about? Did you even READ the rest of the post? As long as [censored] #1 is killing monsters, and [censored] #2 is on his team draining xp, he'll get the same amount of xp regardless of whether he's on Live without these changes or on test WITH them. The difference is that now [censored] #2 isn't rewarded for doing nothing. [censored] #1 is not hindered at all.

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According to the original quote there is apparently a "supposed to" way of hunting. I was unaware that not "killing monsters" was doing nothing.

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Meaning? THIS DOES NOT AFFECT YOU ONE LITTLE BIT IF YOU ARE HUNTING LIKE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE!

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Sorry I guess my copy of the game was missing the "hunting rules" Here I was thinking I purchased a game where I get to figure out how to make progress...

It looks like the simple answer is, if you want to continue to play COH in the future, don't team for hunt missions, or don't play non-attack oriented ATs. Bye-bye controller, and defender for me. They are far too hard to solo or if you want a controller- just Pl them. It looks like the gigantic "don't do this" thread was pretty much ignored. I play COH because it's a fun game to play. This whole issue reminds me of the PnP GMs that make ridiculous rules or rulings because they players figured out a way to get past the "impossible" enemy. If this was a real problem, I'd be all for the solution. The only stated reason for this is that it somehow "devalues" the game. Odd because I'm still paying the same money. I play the game because it's a comic concept game. I want cool powers and villians to use them on. I could care less about how many points of damage a particular attack does except in a general way. Generally you can tell that from the animation (nova is not energy blast). The more it becomes an accounting game, the less likely I am to play it.