Czar_Bal

Funny thing is, I was talking to a VG-mate of mine tonight and he said that he would rather I bring my Ice/Dark Corr into RV instead of my Dom. He pointed out that I can spam my two holds (Freeze Ray and Petrifying Gaze) and have better luck trying to hold someone then trying to survive long enough to build Domination.

I was going to argue but then I realized he was right. Plus my Corr can Debuff and self-heal. Add into the equation that my Corr does more damage. The only time I think I would actually bring my Dom in is if the villians had a huge numbers advantage. Kinda sad.

This is not saying that I will abandon my Dom. In PvE I'm sure I can do fine.

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I still don't see this as a big issue. The complaints about the strings of AV's that heroes encounter in the 40's has been corrected, the one thing that does need to get fixed is that AV's that get dropped down to EB's need to lose the AV "purple triangles". Other than that I don't see a big problem, will there be mez resistant mobs? Certainly, but there should be a "paper" to our "rock".

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It's not the amount of mezz resistant minions. It's the amount of mezz producing minions that I am woried about. We have no "scissors" to their "paper."

Thank you for bring this discussion back to PvE. I think this is where it should be since there are a lot more PvE'ers than PvP'ers.


Soloing currently isn't a problem due to the minions’ abilities (I’ve been soloing on Relentless since 32 with my Grav/Eng so I know it is very possible.). Pre-35, there are very few minions that have stun/holds. They are fairly easy to deal with. The only things that are a concern are Lts. and Bosses. Even at 40, Air Thorns aren’t that bothersome.

But if CoV follows the pattern of CoH, the sheer number of minions that have some sort of mezz attack will increase until nearly everyone has one. Maybe it’s my play style but I see my job, either solo or on a Team, closer to a Tanker. Prevent the mob from damaging my teammates so that they can dispatch them, then help with the mop up work. I’m in close and get dirty. This imho was reinforced with the increase to our melee damage. Unfortunately, this could mean insto-death in the later levels.

I would rather discuss PvE play but since the only thing that people want to discuss here is PvP, I'm game.

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I compare Dom's to Blasters since they do have similar play styles in PvP, there are differences as well, but in both cases your defense is your ability to neutralize threats before they can hurt you.

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Unfortunately, the ways we "neutralize" a threat is vastly different. Damage is always effective, control is seldom effective (especially at higher levels).

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Blasters, Defenders, and Corruptors manage without self mez protection, ...

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As stated before, Blasters have damage on their side. But both Defenders and Corrs have the ability to buff/heal themselves or debuff their opponents. As Doms, we have nothing to fall back on. It's hold or nothing in most cases.

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Doms on good teams do quite well, ...

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This can be said about ANY AT. I've done some amazing things in Siren's with my Warshade if I can get on a good team. Still doesn't make Warshades very suitable to PvP.

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The only real justification that I can see for giving Doms mez protection in their PPP's due to factional balance. Controllers do get those powers, which brings the number of hero AT's with mez protection to 3 while only 2 villain AT's have mez protection outside of normal pool powers.

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This is a big point you bring up. I'll counter with the number of support AT's per side that can grant mezz protection. Obviously heroes get Defenders and Controllers. Both very powerful and abundant. Villians get Corrs and MM's. So on the surface it looks even, except the only power set for MM's that can give a Clariuty/Clear Mind style of protection is Poison. The others only offer PBAoE resistance. This tilts the advantage away from viliians (very much away from Doms.)

Honestly, pre-40 I think our active defenses are adequate. But (as posted by someone previously) tacking a limited mez protection on to the PPP armors would be an easy and a good addition.

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I'd suggest you test this before commenting, this is a buff and quite a large one. I personally don't believe that Doms need anymore big adjustments. Some small ones would be fine, but the biggest PvP issues have been addressed.

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Unfortuneately there are several PvE issues that have not (mez portection for one) but I don't hold much hope that the devs will do anything else for us.

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I have some pvp related questions for the I7 related PvP boost.

It's stated that you only get a boost when attacking opposing players with your Dom secondary attacks (like Fire Blast or Ice Blast), is this true? There was no bonus attacking critters in a pvp zone.

Do any other powers (such as the single target hold or patron power attacks) gain this bonus for attacking other players? I would think they would at least give the bonus out for use of each Dom sets single target hold.

Thanks.

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You only get the bonus points if


<ul type="square">[*]The attack is from you secondary power set (The Assualt set).[*]You actually successfully hit the opponent PC (misses do not count.)[*]The enemy can be hit. (Meaning Phased PC's don't get the extra.)[/list]

My suggestion is to find a very low defense character, Regens work well, and stay in snipe range and kite for as long as you can.

While the abundance of mezz attacks in PvP is troublesome. The lack of mezz protection, at least with my Dom, is most evident in the 40+ PvE game. When nearly every mob (even soloing) has at least one critter that can stun/sleep/hold (and to a lesser extent immobilize), our active defense system is woefully inadequate to satisfactorily complete missions. Can we? Sure if we dedicate two-thirds of our INS tray to BF’s and go incredibly slow. This could easily be rectified by adding mezz protection to the PPP armors. We got a boost to melee damage yet going into melee range is too hazardous in my opinion to be worth it.

Oh well. Nothing for us in the 5/10 patch. Hopefully the devs looked at what has been done and our response and still will boost us a but more.

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The unrechargeable 4/15 pet is very debateable on coolness. Being a Grav, the last thing I really need is a 27% of the time pet.

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Being mind/psi, all my pets are 27% of the time pets.

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true, but you can have a mob turn on itself, having several "pets" at a time.

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We get nice armor and another cool pet.

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The unrechargeable 4/15 pet is very debateable on coolness. Being a Grav, the last thing I really need is a 27% of the time pet.

Maybe the problem I have is how I see my role on a team. I compare myself in role to a Tanker. I am to control the agro then dish out enough damage to eliminate anything that has escaped. A Tanker does this by Taunt, Passive defenses/damage mitigation and high hit point. Obviously they need mez protection to do their job (Holds drop all toggles and prevent Taunting.) I do it by eliminating the incoming damage then mopping up what's left. Now I will admit that a held opponent is the best opponent. The issues that I have is that we have only pool power defenses/damage mitigation (taken care of in the PPP) but have low hit points, weak damage (which the devs have partially corrected) and no mez protection. We get held, we're done for (very evident in PvP.)

While getting Tanker damage on my ranged attacks isn't likely, I don't see a problem with getting 75% on ranged and 80% on melee. I face the same risks that Tankers, Scrappers, Brutes and Stalkers do without several of their benefits.

The only other thing I would add to Tanker damage and Blaster hp is is Mezz defense.

With the amount of mezz attacks from critters in the upper content in CoH, I assume the same will be true about CoV. The armors in the PPP won't matter if we get stunned/held on a mission. Also, if we get mezzed, we can't apply our active defenses. I won’t even get into our troubles in PvP-land.

I did notice a slight increase with my Grav/ENG, but we're only slighty behind */Fire due to 3 melee attacks (one being TF).

Small steps folks, we got a melee boost now we need a ranged boost, Power Boost/Aim/Psychic Drain tweak, mez protection ....

Remeber everyone. The devs go for the "small bumps over time" rather than "Huge bump and scale back."

Hopefully this is only the first step with some more small steps to come. While the 5% to melee is nice, keep up the testing and reporting. Hopefully we can make a bigger, substantial change in the long run.

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Not entirely true. Containment works off immobs, and those recharge very very fast. Dom immobs are rather worthless.

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I can't recall the last time I saw immobilize actually stick to someone in PvP.

I'm willing to accept the idea that it's possible though.

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Just target a Dom. If we didn't take the Jump pool, we're goners.

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CITY OF VILLAINS

Powers

* Increased Dominator Melee damage modifier to 0.75 -- this increases their melee damage by 6.7%

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Oh baby. This is good news. Now all they need to do is buff ranged to 70% and all damage complaints should cease. I'm celebrating right now. This is a step in the right direction!

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I'll take you on face value. While I was hpoing for more, this is what I figured we would get (at least for now.)

Now, please give us some kind of mezz support. Toggle defenses are worthless if we can't keep them up. This damage boost will do nothing if I don't dare go into melee range due to so many mezz attacks in the higher level game (both PvE and PvP.)

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Through either primaries, secondaries, or EPPs, every Hero AT (apart from Khelds, and I'm only sure about warshades) has access to a ranged hold.

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Both do get a melee hold and Warsheds have a built-in TP Foe (which we can't prevent since other than they have to have a ToHit chance for it to hit us.)

The only benefit to us is that we can actuall farm the Held Badge from other player incredibly easily.

In the longer version of what I said, */psi would get a minor mire effect on top of what you have now. So I didn't leave you out.

And I don't expect to hold an AV, but with an EB I should be able to eventually break theough their mezz defense with Power Boost and Domination. I have been able to do it with normal EB's but with converted AV's I never have been able to.

CuppaJoAdministrator
Community Coordinator


Reged: 04/12/04
Posts: 2138
Loc: The Thin Blue Line
Re: Starting Temp power... ? [Re: Aracade]
#5476106 - 05/08/06 11:12 AM
Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote

Quote:
The starting temp power... does it still disappear at 10 or can you actualy keep it now?

Yes - once a little bug is fixed you will be able to keep your origin power past 10 - permanently!


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another free quick Domination building power

Posty from CuppaJo here.

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Its not bad but it doesnt fix the underlying problems.

One of the main ones being we are too dependant on domination.

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Early on, maybe. With TO's, the duration boost is almost necessary for holding bosses. However, my L35 mind/psi regularly completes missions without ever using it.

Regardless, isn't that rather like saying brutes are entirely too dependent on fury, or stalkers too dependent on assassination?

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Same can be said about my lvl 40 Grav/ENG. i can hold nearly any boss with Power Boost &gt; GD &gt; GDF &gt; GD for a long time. The problem comes in with

a.) non-*/Ice or *?ENR Dominators that don't have Power Boost.

b.) EB'ed heroes and AV's

While it wouldn't help with part b, changing Power Boost/Aim to a modified Power Build-Up would be a generous help to us.

(Am I sounding like a broken record on this topic yet?)

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Here's my attempt to state in somewhat of a syllogism form why I think the PvE change for Dominators doesn't help much for large teams:

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Have you *tried* it yet?

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I think what fifteen is saying is that the reduction is nice and even a welcomed change, but a efw more tweeks would be nice.

Most people agree that solo and on small teams, Dominators rock. The problem becomes evident when players discuss their experiences on large teams.

Personally, I don't do large PUG's very much anymore in CoV with anything except my Corrupter. (Haven't really gotten into brutes and MM's yet, and people resist when I try to take point with my Dom or Stalker.) In my SG though, I will run in large teams without hesitation.

I agree with the PvP assessment. I was 2-shotted by a Controller yesterday. Kinda sad that a Low Damage AT can wipe me out.

/agreed

Some of the PPP powers look ok, but the lack of diversity in power selection is saddening. I've suggested before that instead of 2 TierI, 1 Tier II, and 1 Tier III power give us a couple more at each level. Say 4 Tier I, 3 Tier II and 2 Tier III (since the pets are not very helpful -- pets with a Stalekr? WHAAAAT?) then let us choose what we need. I mean, Lord Recluse runs a vast criminal organization and our Patrons are supposed to be incredibly powerful. Stop being so cheap you bassturns!

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Doms in RV are the only AT the feels like a different fight in i7. Everything else is pretty predictable, but doms seem changed. They are just as squishy as before, but their holds seem to break through more often. I think it's because of the toggle drop changes. Doms get the highest chance to drop toggles now, plus, if the mez protection toggle drops, then boom, you are held and ALL the toggles drop. No other AT can do this and it happens fairly often if you have two or more doms attacking you.


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Don't be decieved. While we still have the highest toggle droppping capabilities, they are a fraction of what we used to do. The increased chance to hold is the Domination change.

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They need help.

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Thanks again for your support. Hopefully more non-Doms can give us their impressions of us.

Lycaeus,

That was a great 2 Infamy. I think that for the most part you have summed up my feelings as well.