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Originally Posted by Issen
So...the SSAs. Yeah. I have to admit, after thinking over Part 4, I've come to the conclusion that these arcs are definitely NOT intended for folks already familiar with the lore. Why? Because those characters should be familiar with almost everything that happens, or should see the twist coming a mile away. This is painful because CoH is a world in which almost every super-hero trope we know of IS true. Why aren't people MORE Genre Savvy?
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I disagree to an extent, I think #3 & 4 had some issues but I think the earlier ones were good. Before doing the arcs, my main hero, (who hasn't done the Midnighter's content yet) as the arc implies wouldn't know Darrin Wade from Joe nobody, or would at most think he's a small time artifact dealer (a point which at least I felt) the Midnighter's themselves try to downplay. Secret societies & their secrets... Remember your
hero most likely would have no idea what your villains do for Wade in his arc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Issen
I'll do a count:
SSA-1: Heroes stop a plan to remove Synapse's power from him, but the grand-mastermind behind the scheme still has a backup, he just forgot to RTFM. References are made to the Lost's "masters", who anyone familiar with the lore should recognize as the Rikti.
Villains 1, Heroes 0
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I think it's more even, yes He 'lost' because of a technicality, but so does your villain character and the evil spirit who
made the artifact! The mastermind, has to come away with something for his efforts, otherwise the story would end. So I think it's more:
Villains 0, Heroes 0, Wade .5 (he didn't succeed in the plan after all).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Issen
SSA-2: Darrin Wade instigates a raid on the Midnighter's Club with the help of the Rulu-Shin (anyone knowing the lore or has played redside knows this connection exists) to steal Tommy Arcanus' Skull, among other things. Villains steal the skull back, but not before some vital information is given to the head mastermind. Villains also get a shiny ransom from Numina for returning the skull. Heroes once again fall behind.
Villains 2, Heroes 0
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On the surface, yes it seems a total victory for the villains, but is it? On both sides, you plow through the Rulu-Shin and destroy ones of their most successful front operations and defeat a bunch of Rularuu's servants weakening them substantially. This part was
not a part of Wades plan, sure he might blow it off but it defiantly sets his long-term goal back a bit. Plus, he got the info he wanted, yes, but that info was about a special ability of Numina, which
wasn't what Wade wanted to hear! So he's setback, yet again.
So heroes .5, villains 1, wade 1.0
As some of the others pointed out, you have to build up the main villain and make it
look like he's starting to win to build him up,
especially such a relatively minor villain from our perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Issen
SSA-3: Heroes are forced to fail to see through the obvious trap ever when Malaise kidnaps Alexis. Manticore insists on protecting her alone rather than having anyone help him, and thus fails miserably (more violation of common sense). The Heroes are distracted by Marshall Blitz trying to fling Warburg's nuclear missiles at Paragon, while Alexis is killed off-camera. By the time the Heroes organize, defeat Marshall Blitz, and then find Jean/Malaise, Alexis has been dead for some time, seemingly for the sole purpose of pissing people off.
Villains 3, Heroes 0.5 (I have to give the Heroes some credit for stopping the missiles, but WHY couldn't a separate group try to retrieve Alexis while that was happening?!)
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Now I haven't played the villain side of this yet, and I did do the Calvin Scott TF back in the day which changed some dialog for me (which was the most awesome thing I've seen in awhile, I love that! Just wish it affected more in part 4). This part, as much as I was moved by Alexis' death, part of it made no sense to me, but
not her dying or not being able to stop it. Although, yes I would have wished we could have, for Malaise to want an audience for his 'art' or something maybe. I defiantly got from the story that
everyone from Manticore on down
knew it was a trap, but
Alexis insisted on going, So there no "Heroes are forced to fail to see through the obvious trap" We saw through it, Alexis is just as stubborn as her father, and what could we have done?
Not gone? That's not very heroic.
Am I pissed that Manticore insisted on saving her himself? Yes, but not at the writers, that
is Manticore's character, he thinks he knows/is better equipped and more experienced at this. What makes me upset is the way they worked going back to Paragon as part of the plot. Alexis is kidnapped, missiles are going to go, and our heroes (and Manticore) have to go all the way back to Paragon and let her die? Thats the bad writing part in my opinion. They should have done something more like the latter part, a series of inter connected maps.
As for the missile launching anyway, that's
not a direct failure on your heroes part, from what I've read, the villain arc happens in-between, after you
stop the missiles as a hero your villain turns it on and launches it. Much like the last bank you saved in a safeguard mission, does knowing that the next day, some villain succeeded in robbing it because you weren't there diminish your hero? I don't think so, it's the common theme of
not being able to be everywhere and save everyone. If it's anyone's failing, it's Longbow's for not securing the site after you stop it.
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Originally Posted by Issen
SSA-4: Despite being captured and interrogated under lock and key, Malaise sets off an "Exactly-As-Planned" scheme by which he gets himself into Sister Psyche's mind and tries to kill her for reasons that are never explained besides him being "totally-off-his-rocker-evil". The Heroes save Psyche from being killed, but she's now trapped inside her own mind by a piece of Aurora Borealis' personality that wants to murder her, and the heroes cannot do a thing to help her, putting her out of commission for a while. Meanwhile, Manticore gets mind-warped by the Dirge of Chaos, Statesman is angry and Ms. Liberty is just shy of going full Vigilante (though it's not without justification)
Villains 4, Heroes 0.5
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This is where I think some of the premise falls short again, I love everything that happens inside Psyche's head. I admit I've been hoping to take Malaise down since the Scott TF (and Psyche forcing him to be good it kind of makes me uneasy too). Because of that, and what was said to Manticore in Part 3 about trusting Malaise, I defiantly felt railroaded into stopping Manticore (or at least not blasting malaise when the song started). Now I did accidentally play these out of order (4 then 3 so I was
really confused), so it's possible I missed some dialog option because of that if it's tied to some flag. But I'm ok with that, heroes don't let other heroes kill prisoners especially ones with their wife stuck in his head, which never turns out well for her.

It also goes again into Manticore's character that he has to solve everything himself and doesn't seem to trust others a lot.
As for Malaise's reasons, well despite you claiming these
aren't for those who keep up with lore, if you play the Scott TF in Ouroboros, you'll see a lot of his reasons. Basically he's a psycho, and Sister Psyche's been mind dominating him for
years to be good. He resents her for forcing him to go against his nature and abandon his 'art' He's also mad because of heroes like her his 'art' isn't appreciated more than him saving people while being forced to be a hero.
Also we
do save Psyche! That was pretty obvious from the arc.
We are the only ones who can go in and save her, unfortunatly, yes like in the Scott TF, she's out of it for awhile, so yes Wade's plan gets a bit father a long, Psyche's out of the way. However, she's alive, that usually comes back to bite villains in the butt later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Issen
SSA-5: We know Statesman is somehow killed. This precludes anything the player could possibly do or think of that could be of any use or could possibly prevent the situation. Statesman bites the bullet no matter what the Heroes do, and are forced to watch as the villains get to laugh at them for failing to be useful yet again. Good job!
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While yes he dies, saving him
isn't our goal in the arc, our goal is to stop that missile, and Wades plan (freeing Rularuu). We have to do it and be the hero because Statesman's not up to the task and dies.
Killing Statesman is the goal of our player villains. So yes villains get to laugh because they killed Statesman, only to find he wasn't the biggest threat and
it doesn't matter because they still loose in the end! What's more important? Saving Statesman, or the City & the world? Which one would a hero save if you can't save both?
As for the branching storylines idea, I welcome more of them! Different stories are already in the game, as Ive said my play through seems a little different then those who havent done the Scott TF. Also my letter from Requiem is different from a lot of others, both are still valid and dont break the game or immersion in my opinion, with different dimensions and Ouroboros being available.