Captain Fabulous

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Here is a suggestion from forumite Neuronia, who sent it to me in a PM:

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I'm putting aside the Controller aspect as I think it skews things more to the side of extreme safety and doesn't have much relevancy to the topic.

Rolled a FF Defender yesterday (went FF/Psy) so I'll have more to report as I crest 50. One thing I *did* want to get back to was Detention Field changes.

I turned my attention to Peacebringer Quantum Flight (No, I'm NOT asking we get a travel power added to DF, that's not Cottage Country, it's silly), wherein you do have a Toggle with an increasing endurance cost as you maintain it.

In this case, you could capture your foe for a variable amount of time. Endurance costs would increase exponentially until evetually either:

i)The toggle would 'break' from lack of endurance recovery.
Problem with this...with Recovery IOs could be made 'permable'

i)Timer on the power would drop it after a set period, irregardless of the amount of Catch a Breath or recovery associated.

This would turn DF into a sort of 'soft' Control for the Forcefield user. We might want to increase the recharge time somewhat though, if we're getting an autohit Toggle.

Other considerations, if the target would break line of sight (this is obviously more of a consideration in the case of a player affected) the Toggle would break and need to be reapplied.

I am somewhat uneasy at the Toggle aspect, esp. vis-à-vis player vs. player interactions, but this seems, at least to me, to be somewhat of a better compromise.

Lastly, I do think it's possible for the Devs to code the changes to the Defender version only. I'm a little foggy at the moment but I'm sure this has happened in the past.

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Y'know, not to be a [censored] or anything, but I made this exact same suggestion TWICE in this thread. Does anyone actually read what I write???

I too think changing DT to a limited toggle would greatly enhance the usability; mostly because you'd be able to bring it down whenever you chose (or like the current version, would come down on it's own after a short period of time, say 30 seconds).

The reverse PFF idea could be applied with this one, separately (because if you can actually attack what's inside DF you don't really care much about when it comes down), or not at all. It was just another suggestion.

And I'm going to address MagicJ for a moment (and yeah, I'll have to un-ignore so I can read the response)

Please read over the changes to FF that I posted, and explain to me, in detail, why you think those changes would after the various FF powers in such a way that your Mind Controller would lose the ability to do what she can do now.

Because as far as I can see it, all the changes (besides the alternative change to Repulsion Field) still retains all the same basic functionality of the current FF powers, but makes them better and more useful for EVERYONE who uses them, not just the Defender.

So please, take a moment, review my suggestions 1 by 1 and discuss why you think my ideas would drastically alter the playstyle you are so protective of.

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What we should present to the devs in the end is a list of 1-3 suggested power changes that we have some sort of consensus on.

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That's a worthy goal, but I'm not sure how feasible it is, mostly because the implementation of KB and repel as ways to improve performance is fundamentally flawed, at least in the case of defender FF.

At some point, if we want to improve some of FF's underachievers, we have to change what they do. Reducing Repulsion Bomb's animation time, for instance, doesn't change the fact that the power still does enough KB to be annoying most of the time. If the power did low-mag KB (i.e., knockdown), would that be a big enough change to remove the idea from the table? It might be ...

Changing Repulsion Field for the better would have wide-ranging ramifications because the power exists, in some form (the 7' PBAoE and the 10' teammate-centred version in Sonic), for a surprising number of ATs (Defender, 'Troller, Blaster, Corruptor, Stalker, MM) across a number of sets.

Detention Field is tricky. It /is/ possible to have power that hit through phasing, Hami now does it, so there may no longer be a tech barrier to making DF into a click / toggle. But this might have PvP ramifications -- i.e., players could be tagged through Phase Shift with the power, but could then subsequently break DF by leaving the toggle's range. Or Castle could make two distinctly different versions of the power, one for PvE (click / toggle) and one for PvP (current version). But ... would he go down that road?

Force Bubble is a tricky power, mostly because it /can/ be incredibly effective -- as anyone who's seen a bots / FF MM tear through mobs can easily attest to. But bots goes hand in glove with FF. The bots are mostly single target ranged mobs, so by design they're made for dealing with KB. The protector bots heal. And the assault bot does -regen. Most of the shortcoming of FF are fixed by pairing the set with bots. And Force Bubble /is/ popular with PvPing bubblers.

In order to make Force Bubble always viable for defenders and PvE, PvP would have to be a consideration ... and the set would probably have to be forked. And forking defender FF off from controller and MM FF is probably one of the last things Castle wants to do.

What this all adds up to, I think, is one big problem that can't be easily solved, hence the proliferation of ideas to fix FF.

And, no, "fixing" defender blasts isn't the answer. Making NightFall and Tentacles line up won't change the fact that Force Bubble removes melee toons from Dispersion Bubble and fugs up any number of other powers.

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I did a lengthy post a few pages back that had realistic changes that didn't remove the core function of the power but at the same time made them much more useful not only for the Defender (who would benefit the most of course), but for any AT that used the set. All the changes (except where noted) would have no impact on PvP, as all of the changes simply make the FF powers into better versions of themselves or, in some cases, similar/better versions of powers that already exist in other sets. Definitely worth reading all the way thru.

Some key highlights

1a.) Changing Repulsion Field from a PbAoE to a location AoE similar to Bonfire. This way it is detached from the caster and stationary. Useful to keep foes at bay without forcing the caster to stand in one place and take massive amounts of aggro.

1b.) A more radical change for Repulsion Field (but still keeping with the core function) is to change it into a Singularity-type pet -- a small mobile field that follows the caster around and knocks back any foes that gets near it. Being removed from the caster eliminates the aggro, and the small size of the field greatly reduces unwanted scatter. Also, by the nature of the way pets follow you, you can stand in front of it, behind it, next to it, etc. to give you protection exactly where you need it, further reducing unwanted scatter.

2.) Change Repulsion Bomb from a targeted AoE knockback to a cone knockback, similar to Storm/Gale and Sonic/Shockwave. Cone knockback can be VERY useful for crowd control and getting foes where you want them. AoE knockback simply scatters everyone.

3.) Reduce the size of Force Bubble down to 20-25' to match Dispersion Bubble, and add two layers of debuffs, similar to Storm/Hurricane. Those foes stuck at the outside of the bubble suffer a -tohit, -range, and -damage; those that are able to resist the repel effect and enter the bubble still receive those same debuffs but also are hit with a slow/-recharge, -defense, and -regen. We can't change the nature of the power, that being repel, but there is no reason it can't be made much smaller and be the one power with a slew of debuffs that FF really needs. And the 2-tiered debuff application places the more powerful debuffs only on the more difficult foes that can resist the repel. In this way it's not overpowered again "normal" foes (minions, LTs, Bosses), but not useless against the more difficult foes (EBs, AVs, and GMs). At the core, Force Bubble and Hurricane are very similar powers. The idea is to make Force Bubble into Hurricane v2.0 instead of Hurricane v0.5.

The only downside to these changes is that Force Bubble might then be considered too powerful to leave as a toggle, even one with a greatly increase end cost. It might have to be changed to a non-permable click power like most other tier-9 Defender primary powers.

4.) Ideally I would love to see Detention Field turned into a reverse PFF, meaning they can't move or attack, but we can attack them with either greatly reduced accuracy and/or damage. It could be tricky to balance in PvP, so if an idea like that is completely off the table, turning DF into a limited toggle would be a huge improvement. This way you can control the maximum amount of time the power is active, but at the same time the caster has the ability to turn it off early if necessary. This removes one of the chief complaints about the power, that the team often has to sit around and wait for the effect to wear off to defeat the last spawn. Another positive change would be to make caged foes non-targetable (you can't select the foe at all) or non-attackable (you get the "invalid target" message when you attempt to attack). I don't know if this is possible in the current game engine, but this is basically the second major complaint about the power, that people don't realize a foe is caged and have wasted at least 2 or 3 attacks before realizing the foe is untouchable.

5.) Add a knockup component and minor disorient effect to Force Bolt. Many foes that have resistance to knockback do not have resistance to knockup, and this extra bit allows the power to affect many more foes. The disorient effect is just another little bonus that, again, has the chance to affect foes immune to other aspects of the power, and can stacked with the other disorients in the set to briefly stun more difficult foes.

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What Magicj doesn't understand is that we see FF as a defender primary, and compare it to other defender primaries, rather than comparing FF in isolation across other AT's.


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I _have_ compared it to other Defenders' primaries. The only other Defender primary that causes havoc with secondaries the way FF does is Storm, which also provides ways of compensating for that. FF can't do that unless it's redesigned as a Storm clone.

As for me being here discussing possible changes to the set, I probably wouldn't even bother if so many of the suggestions weren't simply terrible _and_ have a pretty good chance of rippling through to the other ATs if implemented.

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I spend the better part of 2 hours coming up with realistic ways of improving FF, not only for the Defender, but for any AT with access to them; ways that actually DO have a chance of being implemented because they do not alter the core function of the power, are not overpowering or imbalanced, and bring all of FFs abilities up to the same usefulness as other Defender primaries and you have the balls to come in here and call my ideas terrible cause because in fixing Defenders they might break your particular Controller playstyle? Well ya know what? [censored] YOU.

Never in over 3 years have I felt the need to do this to anyone, but you obviously are a troll that needs to be excised from this thread.

Welcome to my ignore list, and congratulations on being the first one ever to be on it.

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Unless you just feel an overpowering need to play a Defender, why would you play a Defender FF when the other ATs work better with FF?

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Unbelievable. So your answer to fixing FF Defenders is to delete them and roll a */FF Controller or Mastermind?

That is the most utterly ridiculous thing I have ever read in this forum. And by God I've read some doozies over the years.

And you're STILL not getting it. The reason FF works better with other ATs is because those other ATs have abilities that allow you to either work with or around FFs shortcomings. It only PROVES that FF is broken for Defenders. And since FF is a Defender PRIMARY, it should work the best for us, not Controllers or Masterminds.

I don't understand why you can't comprehend this very simple, easy to grasp concept.

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Changing the secondaries does nothing to address the discrepancies between FF and the other primaries.

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This simply isn't true. The only other Defender primary that knocks things around like FF is Storm and Storm provides extra damage powers that aren't hurt by the Knockback. You're not left with killing things for 50 levels using only single target blasts with Storm.

FF doesn't provide that kind of compensation for making your secondary almost useless. And it _can't_ provide it unless the powerset was almost completely reworked to make it a clone of Storm.

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Dude, changing the secondaries has zero effect on the relationship between the primaries. Nada, zilch, zero. If XYZ primary was better than FF, then it will remain better regardless of changes to the secondaries.

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*sigh* If Knockback reduces the effectiveness of your secondaries, and other primaries don't cause that Knockback, FF will reduce the effect of your secondaries. It's that simple.

If you play a Bots/FF, the bots will still hit despite Knockback. If you play a Mind/FF, Terrify will still hit with Knockback.

If you play a Rad Defender, there is no Knockback to hurt your secondaries. Ditto with Kin. And Dark. If you play Storm, Storm works with Knockback.

The odd man out is the FF Defender.

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You're really just not seeing the big picture. And despite at least half a dozen of us trying to paint it for you, it's like you're running around with your hands over your eyes going "lalalalalalalalalala".

The Force Field set is sub-par compared to other Defender sets NOT because it's a heavy knockback set that causes it to not mesh well with the secondaries. It's a sub-par set because unlike all the other Defender primaries that are a mix of buffs, foe debuffs, and light control, FF is all buff with heavy-handed controls unsuitable for a Defender. It's as simple as that.

If knockback in itself was the issue, then all */Energy Defenders would have problems as all the Energy attacks have knockback. But that's not the case.

And as others have stated, if there was a problem with the secondaries, then ALL Defenders would have problems, not just FF. But that too is not the case.

Part of the problem with FF as a whole is that as the game has evolved over the years foes have gotten more difficult and various debuffs are often necessary to defeat them. And every single Defender primary has had additional debuffs added to their existing foe debuff powers to compensate for this. Except FF that is, because FF has NO foe debuff abilities.

Along with the increased foe difficulty has come substantial player nerfing, making it all the more important to keep foes grouped together for maximum AoE debuffing, damage, and control. And again we have poor FF, which runs 180 degrees contrary to these needs by having 3 powers that do nothing but scatter mobs instead of control or debuff them.

The problem with FF has absolutely nothing to do with the secondaries. The problem with FF is that a number of its powers hamper the ability of the Defender to defend. Not only with its lack of debuffs, but with powers that do nothing but scatter and spread mobs instead of clump and control them.

And I must reiterate the sentiments of others -- FF is a Defender PRIMARY. If the set as a whole is sub-par in performance for Defenders, then changes should be made to correct this. Improving the usability of FF powers for Defenders will not hurt Controllers or Masterminds, but will only make them better as well.

And even though you have managed to find useful ways of using FFs "undesirable" abilities to your advantage as a Controller, it only underscores how sub-par it is for Defenders. The more you try and prove to us the powers work great for your Mind Controller, the more you are proving the set is broken for Defenders, as we simply cannot make use of the powers the way a Controller can. And I'm sorry, but we MUST come first.

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The other thing I wanted to add was to build off Arcanville's reverese PFF idea for Detention Field...Turning Detention Field into a reverse PFF and giving it the ability to work on friends and foes...It could use different timers for the duration depending on whether its a friend or foe you used the power on.

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This idea has merit. It would have to be a toggle power to make this work effectively.

If the power was a PFF type it would give the 5% chance to hit the captive target while not allowing the target to affect others.

On the plus side: It would give an indirect heal effect by allowing a teammate time to naturally heal during combat with relative safety. A foe would not be able to attack which maintains the flavor of the current power. Targets are not entirely unable to be harmed, so there is some balance built in.

On the negative side: It would still have the ToHit buff defense blow-thru issue though. Also, teammates may have issues with suddenly being unable to affect others. In PvP captured targets would have a chance to be damaged while being removed from a fight (which makes it a frustrating power to fight against).

-B.

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The biggest problem I see with something like this, besides the mechanics of having a power that can be used on both allies and foes alike (perhaps it could be done with a confuse component??) is the high potential for misuse.

You would definitely need to have some kind of confirmation box pop up asking if you want to be caged. Without it, the griefing potential is off the charts.

I like the idea of a reverse PFF, but foe-only. You cage them, they can't move or attack, and even though we can attack them the cage grants them an enhanced defense (which I'm not too crazy about) and/or damage resistance (much more palatable to me).

Allowing us to put it on teammates would be like Grant Phase Shift. Not necessarily a bad idea for a temporary power or future powerset, but not something I'd like to see shoehorned into Detention Field or other cage powers.

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Second, and better idea, make it a targeted-location stationary pet like Disruption Arrow...

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I really really like this idea.


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This is essentially what Bonfire is, except the -Res part.


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True, and y'know that never occurred to me at the time that's it's basically Bonfire without the damage.

Now a lot of people don't like Bonfire, mostly because it doesn't mesh at all with the rest of the Fire Control set, and frankly there are much better control powers for them to take.

But this isn't the case with FF. For us it fits much better. It's a perfect example as to how some powers that are universally reviled aren't necessary bad powers, they're just in the wrong set.

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Wow. Did I say anything negative whatsoever? I don't think so. I was actually reaffirming your idea and pointing out what part I liked the best.

Man, sometimes I think people just WANT to be upset with me!

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Actually, it came across as you criticizing me, saying that a low chance to disorient would be better than a minor disorient.

Hmm... maybe it was just the tone.

Anyway, no harm no foul. I'm not disagreeing with you, just clarifying that when I said "minor" it could mean in any number of ways including a low chance.

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Second would be to add some kind of status effect or debuff. Personally I like the idea of a disorient. It fits the nature of the power very well, and makes it much like a single target version of Repulsion Bomb. My only concern here is the devs would most certainly want to drastically lengthen the recharge time if they gave it a standard disorient (most single target disorients have a base recharge of 20 seconds; Force Bolt currently is 4). So perhaps it could be a minor disorient to keep recharge time fairly short (20 seconds IMO would be far too long). Enough stun to be useful, not enough to warrant a 500% increase in recharge.


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That's why I like the idea of a low CHANCE to disorient. If it will only disorient every 5 to 6 hits, I don't see a need to nerf the power in any other way, and then we can spam it on AVs and GMs to give us something else to do to help in that fight.

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So much for

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Please feel free to post your future suggestions here. I will offer no more negative criticisms of them.

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That came and went fast, didn't it.

But to address your concern, a "minor" disorient could be one that's short in duration, low % chance, or low MAG level, or any combination thereof. I didn't specifically say how I thought it should be done other than say "minor" -- whatever was going to be useful without significantly lengthening the recharge time. No more, no less.

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There was a post in the past, i'm sure it's been removed, that had come up with a lot of great idea. If memory serves me correct it was posted atleast 6 Mos prior to CoV's release. Many players drew the conclusion that the power changes and ideas are what the Cold Corruptor Secondary was based on. Maybe we can look at the Cold Secondary and see if there are aspects of that secondary we'd like. I for one would love to trade Repulsion Bomb for a Frostworks-Like Shield. I'd even settle for changing it to a Location AoE -ToHit similar to Liquify. Something to increase the damage of our Secondary. I understand that FF's are about Defense, but Sonic gets a -Tohit/ -Def debuff when it's primary ability is -Resistance Debuffs with +Damage Buffs. I don't think a -ToHit Debuff in a +Def set is out of place.

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Good call on this one. I forgot about that until you mentioned it, but I do remember someone advocating a power to effectively add health to whatever player buffed by the power. Lo and behold, Cold Corruptors get Frostwork.

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Well, not to toot my own horn, but I posted a number of good suggestions a few pages back both showing the shortcomings of various FF powers and some ideas how to fix them that don't require breaking their core functions and are completely do-able. So good in fact, I'm reposting them with a few additions and expansions

WARNING: this is loooong... so many horrible powers to fix, it takes a lot of words

1.) First off, it's a proactive rather than reactive set. Now if the bubbles are sufficient protection for the team, then you're fine. If the bubbles aren't, then there isn't much more you can bring to the table other than knocking foes all over the place all willy-nilly, which is likely to get you booted very quickly from most teams. The set desperately needs some kind of reliable, stackable foe status or debuff effects (more on this later). Other than the big 3 the set doesn't really offer anything that's better or even comparable to powers in other sets.

2.) Repulsion Field is the red-headed stepchild of Kinetics/Repel, but its significantly more difficult to use due to the mechanics of the bubble. This is not to say Repel is all that great either, most Kins skip it religiously. But it works better than Repulsion Field, so what's that say about RF? Very few ideas on how to change this without changing the core of the power (but I have more about this later too). At the very least make it work as well as Repel, with either a greatly increased pulse speed or better yet, NO pulse at all. Fast moving foes should not be able to get to me between pulses. Repel is the same radius, has no pulse issues, and is available at lvl 2 compared to RF at 18. Not right.

3.) Force Bolt is, IMO, a wasted power to take. Almost every single Defender secondary has at least one power with KB, many of which do more than FB's trivial damage. It's pretty much why no one takes Power Push. And as has been pointed out previously, the KB doesn't work on many of the more difficult foes -- the ones you really need to KB.

There are a few things you can do to enhance this power. The obvious solution is to ramp up the KB MAG so that it works on all but the most resistant foes (AVs/GMs, perhaps even a few 'natural' EBs). Right now it's ~MAG 18 (all numbers taken from City of Data). But here's the kicker: it's the highest MAG KB in the game. Considering that Acrobatics is MAG 100, MAG 18 doesn't seem so impressive. If you want to consider PvP play for a moment, MAG 18 has no chance of stopping any Tank, Scrapper, Brute, or Stalker that has KB protection in their set (with the sole exception of Electric Armor Brutes who get MAG 15 protection in Grounded), or any toon that takes Acrobatics. KB IOs are only MAG 4 each, so even with two of them Force Bolt is going to send them flying.

But perhaps one way around giving it an even higher knockback MAG is to add in a knockUP MAG as well. Since KB, KU, and repel are all exclusive of one another (whereas KDown is just a very low MAG KB), adding some KU might allow Force Bolt to affect critters resistant to KB, but not KU (y'know, the ones you can't seem to ever knockback but have no problem flipping with Air Superiority). This change would have no effect in PvP as all powers with KB protection also have KU protection.

Second would be to add some kind of status effect or debuff. Personally I like the idea of a disorient. It fits the nature of the power very well, and makes it much like a single target version of Repulsion Bomb. My only concern here is the devs would most certainly want to drastically lengthen the recharge time if they gave it a standard disorient (most single target disorients have a base recharge of 20 seconds; Force Bolt currently is 4). So perhaps it could be a minor disorient to keep recharge time fairly short (20 seconds IMO would be far too long). Enough stun to be useful, not enough to warrant a 500% increase in recharge.

4.) Detention Field is all but useless except in solo or duos. Period. Use of this power on a large team is a quick ticket to kicksville. It's the same reason NO ONE takes Black Hole or Dimension Shift. I have made this suggestion before, but one way to fix these powers is to make them toggles with a maximum duration, ala phase shift. Nothing is worse than a team standing around waiting for DF to drop so they can kill the last baddie of the spawn. If the power were changed to a limited toggle at least you could control pulling down the field when you wanted to.

Another option is to turn it into a something of a ghetto hold by dropping the "cannot be attacked" flag but keeping the "cannot attack" and immobilize features (and for God's sake add a -teleport already), and shortening the duration to match that of Defender holds. At least that way it doesn't last forever and the target can be attacked. And since you're not making it a true hold, you're not really changing the core function of the power, just shortening the duration and allowing us to attack it.

If nothing else ever gets done to these cage powers at least make it so the detained foe(s) cannot be targeted. This in itself would go a long way towards improving usability, and put an end to the "unaffected" messages and wasted attacks that drive teammates crazy. Oh, and of course, redo the FX so even a blind man can see that a foe is detained.

5.) Repulsion Bomb. Repeat after me: uncontrolled 360 degree KB is BAD; uncontrolled 360 degree KB is BAD... You want to make this power useful, turn it into a fairly wide, long cone. KB newbs will still have issues with using it (and will learn), and the more experienced KB users will actually be able to get something from this. Directional KB, used correctly, is very useful. Omnidirectional KB is just bad no matter how you slice it. And IMO I'd rather see the disorient perform more like Super Strength/Hand Clap (100% chance MAG 2, 50% MAG 1, 0.8 Accy) rather than the 1.2 Accy, 40% chance MAG 2 we have now. Each have a 30 second recharge and similar end costs, so those shouldn't need to change.

6.) Force Bubble. What can be said about this 500 lb brute of a power other than MEH... The bubble is so large trying to use it indoors will likely aggro the entire room (been there, done that...), and it makes no sense why the radius is twice that of Dispersion Bubble. It should be just the opposite. This way melee fighters can be outside Force Bubble but still inside Dispersion Bubble.

And for God's sake it's a tier 9 power. I bust my [censored] to get to lvl 32 and get this pile of manure as my final power? Compare the utility of Force Bubble to other tier 9s -- Dark Servant, Fulcrum Shift, EM Pulse, etc. Every single one of them is leaps and bounds more useful than FB. And again, it's a 360 degree repel, pushing everything not immune 50' away from the Defender (and worse, beyond any short-ranged, high damage or cone attacks they might have).

In comparison, Hurricane, which you can get at lvl 12, does everything Force Bubble can do and so much more. It repels, it debuffs, it knocks back, and is small enough at 25' to be used in an office corridor without aggroing around the corner or thru the wall. Why is a lvl 12 power significantly better than a lvl 32 power?

Shrink the bubble to 15-20' so that it's still large enough for many teammates to fit into and keep foes out of melee range, but small enough that you don't unintentionally aggro nearby mobs. This size also allows melee fighters to be inside Dispersion Bubble while they fight foes stuck at the edge of Force Bubble. And in addition to the repel add a knockDOWN, NOT back, which could be changed to knockback with the addition of a KB enhancement (not that I would ever do that personally, but options are always good). Any foe that tries to enter the field is knocked down and pushed out. This one-two punch will catch foes that are resistant to one or the other. If you really want to go all hog crazy you could also throw in a chance to disorient. This at least gives it some semblance of equality to other tier 9 powers. And in adding a disorient to both Force Bolt and Force Bubble, along with an enhanced disorient in Repulsion Bomb gives the set 3 powers with a disorient. It may not seem like much, but for a set with virtually no foe status effects other than uncontrolled knockback, those 3 disorients adds a significant extra utility to the set it sorely lacks.

7.) Personal Force Field, Deflection Shield, Insulation Shield, Dispersion Bubble. I don't really have much to say about these, I think they all do exactly what they're meant to do and are the core of the set. PFF is much nicer since the changes to defense; it's very difficult to get hit now compared to before. I will always lament the lack of sleep protection in Dispersion Bubble, especially since it's the most prevalent and longest of all the mezzes in PvE, but that's more of a nitpick than anything else. A welcome addition for sure, but more a QoL thing.

Now we get to the really fun part...

Previously I've gone thru the troublesome powers one by one with suggestions on how they could be easily modified and made better. But now I'm going to get a bit more extreme. Some radical ideas as to how to significantly improve these powers without modifying their core function. Cause we all know now it ain't gonna happen otherwise.

1.) Repulsion Field. Core function: AoE foe knockback.
So many things I would love to do with this, unfortunately almost all would change the core function. But I can keep the CF and go three ways, any of which would be a drastic improvement.

First idea, instead of a toggle power that constantly throws foes all over the place, generates tons of aggro, and burns thru end faster than a cheap ****** burns thru LJo perfume, turn it into a PBAoE click power, pretty much identical to Hand Clap. You activate the power and all foes around you get knocked back and disoriented.

Second, and better idea, make it a targeted-location stationary pet like Disruption Arrow, only with knockback instead of -resistance. You drop it wherever you want it and any foe that tries to enter gets knocked back. In this case no disorient is necessary. I can't even begin to count the ways this power would be useful, as opposed to what we have now that is universally considered useless. Since the user is not tied to the bubble you don't generate tons of aggro (the pet does... but who cares, it can't be hurt) and you're free to maneuver around without worrying about inadvertently tossing things all over the place.

And with this kind of functionality you could do all sorts of cool things, like place it around an object you want to protect, or drop it to block a hallway or entrance to slow down an incoming ambush or accidentally-aggroed spawn, etc. etc. etc. Change it to something like this and it would definitely be part of my build.

Third idea, and the most radical, would be to turn it into a pet that follows you around and tosses any foes that get near it (and you). Basically Singularity without all the gravity attacks, just Repel. Make it work very much like Voltaic Sentinel in terms of game mechanics, and keep it similarly sized as well. The advantages to this over what we have now are two fold: since you're not doing the knockback you don't generate aggro, and although the field is mobile, small and not attached to your person the knockback it creates will be more localized depending upon where the pet happens to be, again, very much like Singularity. You can choose to stand behind it to protect yourself from frontal attacks while you pick away them, or stand in front of it to protect you from a rear ambush while you're fighting foes in front of you. Massive amounts of flexibility instead of massive uncontrolled knockback.

2.) Force Bubble. Core function: AoE foe repel.
This is another one I would love to scrap and redesign from scratch, but no-can-do, we gotta keep the AoE repel.

One thing that makes Force Bubble substantially different from other tier 9 Defender powers is that it's a toggle. And I think that's the key to its dysfunction. There is no way to make it a tier-9 class power and have it running all the time. It simply would be too powerful, even if they gave it a ridiculously high end cost (didn't work with Instant Healing, no sense in trying here).

If you make it a long recharge, short duration click power like the other tier-9s there is a lot more you can do with the power simply because it won't be running all the time. The standard for most Defender tier-9s is a 300 second recharge and 30 second duration, and I'm ok with that as long as the power is buffed to the same level as the others.

Let's for a moment look at Sonic/Liquefy. It's a targeted AoE pet that has a slow, -recharge, 37% tohit AND defense debuffs, -run, -fly, knockdown, a 4.5 second MAG 2 hold, AND does a nice chunk of damage. It lasts for 30 seconds and is on a 300 second timer. I mean, DAMN...

Storm Summoning/Hurricane, available at lvl 12. PbAoE MAG 1 foe repel, knockback, 60% -range, 37.5% tohit debuff, 25' radius, 10 second recharge, 0.16 end.

Force Bubble? PbAoE MAG 10 foe repel, 50' radius, 15 second recharge, 0.16 end.

Like I said earlier, Hurricane gives you 3x more ability for the exact same end cost and is available at lvl 12. Hell, I'd be happy if they just gave Force Bubble the same attributes as Hurricane. Unfortunately, you'd still have a tier-9 power that's equivalent to a tier-6, and that's no good.

Ok, repel we must have, so that's a given. Shrink the bubble to 25' at the most. Add in a 37.5% tohit debuff, 60% range debuff, and a 25% damage debuff (it makes sense -- you're projecting an outward force, anything trying to get to you should be severely hampered). Anything that manages to resist the repel and enter the bubble should have the kitchen sink thrown at it -- I'm talking the same tohit, range, and damage debuffs as they get on the edge, but once inside apply a 37.5% defense debuff, a slow/-recharge, -fly, -jump, -recovery, -regen, and damage equivalent to brawl*4 (slightly more than most tier 1 Defender attacks), preferably on every pulse/tick. And of course the deal clincher, change the power from a constant toggle to either a 30-sec click with a 300 second recharge, or alternatively, a toggle with a 30-second max duration, 300 second recharge, and an increased end cost to balance the added functionality.

Now we have a tier-9 worthy of taking. Something we can actually use against AVs/GMs/EBs that currently ignore virtually every offensive power in the set. And really, it's no more or less than any other Defender tier-9 has, and nothing that would be un-thematic to the set.

And best of all, it's completely do-able with current game mechanics and doesn't abandon the power's core function.

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The Force is not strong in this one, he needs more training to become a Master....

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Which I have repeated stated, that if it requires that much work, there is something wrong. Yes, it's obvious that you and MagicJ thrive on that level of complication, but the rest of us just don't.

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Yes, but putting up PFF takes down dispersion bubble and force bubble. So those that you've aggroed and once kept at bay are now free to swarm right up to you and start firing. Now if you're lucky enough to survive that kind of punishment (all it takes is a few lucky hits from an LT or boss and you're dead, with with PFF) it won't be long before you lose that aggro and they wander off to attack the troller standing a few feet away from you. Then what hot shot?

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Ummmmmmm..... 1- I've NEVER been killed inside PFF in four years and 200 levels of playing, I don't know what you're doing wrong and 2 - Once you've "lost" the aggro, you turn OFF PFF and start knocking back again, giving you a few more seconds for PFF to recharge again. Rinse and repeat.

Seriously, have you ever TRIED to play like this before? It's a whole different world.

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Previous to the defense change it was quite easy for an LT or Boss, especially if they were a level or two above you, to punch right thru PFF. And like I said, it doesn't take too many hits to kill you. If you're surrounded by 20 foes, at least 1 of them on average is going to hit you every time.

In the early days, it was quite common to be hit numerous times with PFF up. Times have changed, and it's a much better defensive power than it used to be (and you'll notice I never mentioned PFF in my FF rant).

But honestly, no, I can say for sure I have never attempted to play FF control bot in the manner you've described. If I wanted control, I'd play a troller with FF as a secondary.

There was one time when I still have Force bubble when I was in a similar situation. The bubble was so big when we entered the room I managed to aggro nearly every foe in the room, both upstairs and downstairs, who all came runnin and gunnin. Now if I dropped Force bubble and put up PFF, sure, I would be safe, by my teammates would have gotten obliterated. If I stayed there with Force Bubble and Dispersion Bubble, I would have certainly died from all the aggro. It was a no-win situation. And it's not likeyou can just toggle from one power to another instantly, they all have pretty long recharges.

It ended up a near total team wipe, with the only survivor being me, cause I chickend out and threw up PFF, leaving me helpless inside this bubble, unable to act, while 5 spawns obliterated my team.

Force Bubble was gone via respec the next day. Any power that can inadvertantly cause such a scenario is BROKEN.

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* a brief history lesson, for anyone who bothers to read what I write. FF had 3 single target bubbles on 2 minute timers in Beta. I.e., it was pretty much impossible to keep a full team buffed. The game plan seems to have been, "Buff whoever needs it, and watch out for who's taking what kind of damage. From 18 to 32, evolve away from buffing into keeping mobs out of melee for squishies and onto rooted tankers." As Empathy moves from healing to more general purpose buffing, so to would FF evolve from buffing to throwing. That ... didn't work out.

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I wasn't specifically in beta, but unless this was explicitly stated during beta, I don't think that was the intent. It appeared, based on the discussion surrounding the time when the two ally bubbles were bumped to 4 minutes that the original intent appeared to be, as so many things were in the original conception for the game, that the bubbles were supposed to cost "just enough" in time and endurance to make you think about whether to apply them or not, rather than to monotonously perma them, so that the bubbles presented an actual tactical decision. It took the devs a while to realize that a sizeable percentage of the player population (right or wrong) didn't want or believe in "tactical options." They believed if you had it, you were supposed to always use it. That if you had it, and didn't use it, and something went wrong because of that, it would be extremely frustrating for some players. Basically, their playerbase would be very quickly addicted to power: if a player got a taste of it, they would never accept not having it all the time.

Ironically, when they did bump the bubbles to four minutes, I predicted that within a year, some FF defenders would be complaining that the set was boring because once you deployed the bubbles, there was nothing to do. I was wrong: it took less than six months.


One thing I find interesting about the psychology of the game (and MMOs in general) is that MMO designers tend to think of their creation as a game, and design it as if it was a set of interlocking mini-games. Games have challenges, and hurdles, and points, and rewards.

But a lot of players don't see CoH (or any other MMO) as a game. They see it as something closer to a marathon. XP isn't points, XP is progress. There's a goal, and its the finish line. And what they want is a straight, clear, level path to it that they can run at their own pace. They do not want an obstacle course, or a day of Ninja Warrior. They just want to jog straight ahead, maybe with some friends, make it to the next checkpoint, and then quit for the day. They do not want to dodge a bunch of swinging sandbags while doing it. That's why they want their characters to perform at a particular, predictable level, every day, every hour, and every minute, until its time to move to the next level.

I *don't*, in general, play that way, which is why I find the perspective interesting.

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Interesting points indeed, and I can agree with virtually all of them. Every now and again I'l run into a FF defender or troller that, despite having the two teammate bubbles, simply won't use them. When I asked one of these guys why he wasn't bubbling us even though he had the powers, he basically told me it was too much work keeping everyone bubbled every 4 minutes.

So basically he turned on Dispersion Bubble, maybe thru bubbles on the melee toons if he felt like it, and that was it.

Now this has only happened twice in 3+ years, but it does serve to underscore the inherent core problems with the set.

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Ok, so I *can* aggro the entire room. So what then? I certainly can't defeat them. And if you think Force Bubble and Dispersion Bubble are going to protect me from dying, brother it's you that needs a refresher course in FF.

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Personal Force Field: 75% Defense to ALL and 40% Resistance to anything that actually gets THROUGH.

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Now you may have come up with a list of innovative and exciting ways of using the undesirable FF powers, and hey, more power to ya for it, but the rest of use just want effective powers that work, without requiring a tutorial or advanced degree.

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Point taken, and I'd say you're probably right on that.

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Yes, but putting up PFF takes down dispersion bubble and force bubble. So those that you've aggroed and once kept at bay are now free to swarm right up to you and start firing. Now if you're lucky enough to survive that kind of punishment (all it takes is a few lucky hits from an LT or boss and you're dead, with with PFF) it won't be long before you lose that aggro and they wander off to attack the troller standing a few feet away from you. Then what hot shot?

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5.) Repulsion Bomb. See previous entries as to why uncontrolled 360 degree KB is BAD.

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Is it really so hard to stand on the edge of the group and use the power? There's no 360 KB then.

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So I need to wait until all the foes are standing in a line facing me, at which time I need to run up the the front of the line to drop Repulsion Bomb, hoping that no one turns and gets tossed sideways instead of back. Make it a cone, target the back of the mobs and they always fly backwards. Done. Why make more work for yourself?

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And when the teams getting swarmed, a 360 KB followed by Force Bubble can be awesome. It splits the baddies into smaller groups. You can use geometery to keep the groups seperated and the team can focus on one small group at a time.

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I can't even imagine the havok this would cause, not to mention the craploads of aggro that would suddenly be on your squishy [censored]. If the team is getting "swarmed" a cone KB is just as effective and actually allows you to PLACE them where you want them. And if you're getting swarmed, why on earth would you fire up a 50' bubble that's only going to aggro anything and everthing even remotely close to you.

Honey, I've been there, done that. I at one time had all these powers, tried my damnedest to make use of them, and realized they weren't worth the effort.

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I don't want to go through the rest of your post line by line. This example serves. And while I can understand the feeling of many folks frustrated with the powers, at the same time once you get a feel for them they're extremely useful.

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Yes, it server only to underscore how the only way to get any kind of effectiveness out of FF powers is to become some kind of geometry/bubble guru, something most players simply do not want to become. Now you may like the challenge of finding ways to get these insidious powers to work for you, but you are in the teeny weeny minority -- the same way many people just don't have the patience or fortitude to deal with Kheldians. The learning curve is way too steep for what's billed as a "casual" MMO. If the power requires hours of my time refining its use, there's something wrong with it.

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That, combined with the idea that the Devs have already listened to the player base once and came out with a "fixed" FF that nobody plays (Sonic) is why I don't really want to see FF "fixed" by the player base. The set's not broken and I don't see where some folks are getting the idea that "fixing" it will make it more popular.

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Actually, I really like the sonic set. And you're right, in many ways it's what FF should have been. I have both an empathy/sonic and a stone/sonic, so I've used both sets. I don't exactly know why it's considered such a underrated set, but I can tell you it's lightyears beyond FF, with virtually every power being usable right from the get go -- no extensive boot camp training required.

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Wow, I almost completely deflated your post before you posted it. Read above please.

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Yes, but as I said in the first sentence of my post, I shouldn't need a user's guide to FF to be able effectively use my powers. No other powerset needs that kind of guidance. It simply reinforces that the set is poorly designed.

Ok, so I *can* aggro the entire room. So what then? I certainly can't defeat them. And if you think Force Bubble and Dispersion Bubble are going to protect me from dying, brother it's you that needs a refresher course in FF.

So yeah, there are lots of things you CAN do with FF powers, but none of them are really much use to anyone. I can bounce foes all over the map like ping pong balls. Ok, so what? Does that earn me XP? Does that make it easier for me or my team to defeat them. Hardly. Just the opposite.

Now you may have come up with a list of innovative and exciting ways of using the undesirable FF powers, and hey, more power to ya for it, but the rest of use just want effective powers that work, without requiring a tutorial or advanced degree.

Wow... way too much "out of the box" thinking here. I shouldn't have to work so hard to figure out how to make FF powers useful. They should be useful right out of the box.

And here in lies the problem with FF.

1.) First off, it's a proactive rather than reactive set. Now if the bubbles are sufficient protection for the team, then you're fine. If the bubbles aren't, then there isn't much more you can bring to the table other than knocking foes all over the place all willy-nilly, which is likely to get you booted very quickly from most teams.

2.) Other than the big 3 the set doesn't really offer anything that's better or even comparable to powers in other sets. Force Bubble is a fat, bloated, underpowered version of hurricane. Repulsion Field is the red-headed stepchild of Kinetics/Repel, but it significantly more difficult to use due to the mechanics of the bubble. This is not to say Repel is all that great either, most kins skip it religiously. But it works better than Repulsion Field, so what's that say about RF?

3.) Force Bolt is, IMO, a wasted power to take. Almost every single Defender secondary has at least one power with KB that does damage. Why do you need another that does KB with no damage? It's pretty much why no one takes Power Push. In a set full of KB, why bother?

4.) Detention Field is all but useless except in solo or duos. Period. Use of this power on a large team is a quick ticket to kicksville. It's the same reason NO ONE takes Black Hole or Dimension Shift. I have made this suggestion before, but the way to fix these powers is to make them toggles with a maximum duration, ala phase shift. Nothing is worse than a team standing around waiting for DF to drop so they can kill the last baddie of the spawn. If the power were changed to a limited toggle at least you could control pulling down the field when you wanted to. Short of that, just turn it into a something of a ghetto hold by dropping the "cannot be attacked" flag but keeping the "cannot attack" and immobilize features, and shortening the duration to match that of other Defender holds. At least that way it doesn't last forever and the target can be attacked. And since it's not a true hold, you're not really changing the core function of the power, which is to lock them away in a field in which they cannot move or attack.

5.) Repulsion Bomb. See previous entries as to why uncontrolled 360 degree KB is BAD. You want to make this power useful, turn it into a cone. KB newbs will still have issues with using it, but the more experienced KB users will actually be able to get something from this. Directional KB, used correctly, is very useful. Omnidirectional KB is just bad no matter how you slice it.

6.) Force Bubble. What can be said about this 500 lb brute of a power other than MEH... The bubble is so large trying to use it indoors will likely aggro the entire room (I've been there, done that...), and it makes no sense why the radius is twice that of Dispersion Bubble. It should be just the opposite. This way melee fighters can be outside Force Bubble but still inside Dispersion Bubble. And for God's sake it's a tier 9 power. I bust my [censored] to get to lvl 32 and get this pile of manure as my final power? Compare the utility of Force Bubble to other tier 9s -- Dark Servant, Fulcrum Shift, EM Pulse, etc. Every single one of them is leaps and bounds more useful than FB. And again, it's a 360 degree repel, pushing everything not immune to repel 50' away from the Defender. Big deal. You want to get out of melee range take Hover at lvl 6 and float above the crowds. Or if you really want to push it take Group Fly at lvl 22 and let everyone float above the crowds. Either is a better alternative to the highly unwieldy Force Bubble. How to fix it? Shrink the bubble to 15' (still large enough for many teammates to fit into and keep foes out of melee range, but small enough that you don't unintentionally aggro nearby mobs as well as allow melee teammates to be outside FB but inside DB), and in addition to the repel add a knockDOWN, NOT back. Any foe that tries to enter the field is knocked down and pushed out. This at least gives it some semblance of equality to other tier 9 powers.

And here's the the other problem. Since these powers were so poorly designed back in the dark ages of CoH, and with their policy of never changing a power's core function, I simply don't see how you can fix most of these powers. You can adjust them here and there, add some extra buffs or debuffs, but all that's going to do is take them from utterly useless to marginally useful (as in, ok I have nothing better to take so I guess I can go with the revamped Repulsion Bomb).

On the flip side, I kinda like that FF has so many useless powers. The very second character I created was FF/Psi, way back in July 04. Yeah, I still have him, but he's been stuck at level 33 for years. On one hand it's nice to be able to skip so much of FF, allowing me to take virtually all my attacks, the fitness and leadership pools, and also be able to slot them up nicely.

On the other hand it gets very boring very quickly playing like this. You bubble up the team every 4 minutes, and in between you're attacking. But since you do pathetic amounts of damage (and I mean REALLY pathetic) you don't feel like you're contributing much. And the general perception from those that can't fully appreciate bubbles is that you're not contributing much either. And that kinda sucks.

And oh, did I mention Vigilance is absolutely 100% useless for an FF Defender? Yet another ability other Defenders can take advantage of that FF can't. Vigilance should be based upon the number of foes within a certain distance of you, kinda like Invincibility or Rise to the Challenge, except with a very large radius, say 25'. The more foes around you, the more Vigilant and endurance efficient you become. Tying it into teammate health is the same reason Defiance 1.0 didn't work.

This might be a bit OT, but does this mean that they won't be doing mass 2 week re-activations of expired accounts like they've done the past few issues?

I have a few friends that want to come back and try out some of the new stuff, but honestly aren't sure if they're gonna want to start playing (and paying) again. Was there an issue with the prior re-activations I'm not aware of? Or did they just decide this was a more profitable way to go, as well as weed out those that are content to just play for free for 2 weeks every couple of months?

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I hope... for the sake of the development team, that most of them stuck with Cryptic - In 3 years CoH will be almost seven, which is a long time for any MMO, and while Cryptic would probably just move the people to a new project, I have a feeling NCSoft would just give them the axe.

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Well, since (according to Ex) only one stayed with Cryptic, I'm guessing they don't share your pessimism.

And for the record, Lineage will be 10 years old next year, and NCSoft certainly hasn't given up on that.

Think about it like this: as others have pointed out, CoX was Cryptic's only money maker. That means NCSoft must have made them quite a pretty offer for them to give it up. In addition to that, NCSoft is creating a new studio for them, and expanding their team. Businesses don't put that kind of investment into things they don't think will be around for much longer.

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Oh, I'm not implying that NCSoft will give up on COH any faster than Cryptic would have. But the fact is that once a game gets old, it gets less popular, and it needs less people to tend it. By the time an MMO is 7 or 8, well, that's ancient. It's still going to have it's fans, but not as many, and it isn't as feasable to keep as many people on staff for it.

No matter who owns it.

I think the cries that NCSoft will shut down CoH faster than Cryptic are largely false. That's not to say that the game is going to last forever. And this indeed COULD be read as a sign that the servers will be shut down soon (although I personally wouldn't read it that way). But if that's the case, they'd have been shut down no matter who was owning it. When a game's time is done, pretty much anyone running it could see the writing on the wall.

My point was only that NCSoft and Cryptic have two vastly different styles of dealing with problems and dealing with customers. I happen to prefer Cryptic's methods over NCSoft's - at least what I've seen in this game. Other people obviously prefer NCSoft... that's their perogative. That's why I said.. it all depends on what you dig.

Zeus - god of reiteration

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Well I think the fact that CoX is no longer in Cryptic's hands means there's a good chance NCSoft is going to attempt to revitalize it as a direct competitor to MUO.

It always seemed a little sketchy that Cryptic had two similar-themed games for two different publishers. And I'm sure this was something that greatly concerned NCSoft -- the likelyhood is very high that Cryptic would have diverted more and more resources from CoX for MUO as needed -- great for Cryptic, lousy for NCSoft. Let's face it, compromise is NOT one of Jack's strong suits.

And why on earth would NCSoft go thru all the trouble of buying CoX if they just planned on burying it? They wouldn't, it doesn't make any kind of sense. Logically you would buy it so you could pump it up as a direct competitor to any other superhero themed games coming down the pike.

Seems pretty clear and simple to me. With Cryptic owning both games there is a distinct conflict of interest issue. if CoX continues to go strong and MUO tanks, what would stop MS from suing Cryptic for just such a reason? Or vice-versa with NCSoft if CoX tanks.

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I think it's great news personally.

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I would like to hear your opinion on it in 6-12 months, to be honest.

NCSoft reports show that CoX isn't drawing in many new, sustained subscribers. Let alone maintaining a steady draw to current ones. It isn't a "DOOOOOM" issue, mind you, but the numbers are not holding or growing.

Now, NCSoft is hiring enough programmers and developers, as they say, to in essence double or triple the current CoH team. They've even moved it to a brand new studio location.

They want to expand and better market the I.P. and Franchise.

All of that costs money. And since that extra overhead is not being paid for by a steady influx of new subscribers, that means a necessary overhaul to the Business Model for CoX. I'm telling you this from the point of view of a CEO, myself.

So, now I wonder . . .

After I11 and I12, one about to release and the other more than likely already in the works, how many FREE Issues after that will be the "wow and cool" factors that people here have come to expect?

How many will be made to be less for free, so money can be made off of new stand-alone/expansions (ala CoV) that will be tacked on for an extra $5, $10 or so a month to the sub-fees?

How many features that we've come to expect from the Free Issues (mainly new powers, possible epic ATs, and zones) will, instead become pay-for-expansions. And will they run the normal $30? The $10 model of the old EQ2 Adventure Packs? or a combination thereof?

Because the business model as it is now, with the non-growing subscriber base, cannot support the overhead expansions they are now enacting.

And should any new business model not pan out for NCSoft, how long until Dev teams are transfered to the "next big project" and the aging CoX is just left on skeleton, development life-support? Because, you don't actually believe this new office/studio will ONLY be a CoX facility, do you? Not over the long-term, I'll bet you.

Those are hard factors in any business model, especially when a company promises larger teams, dedicated offices, expansion to the franchise, et cetera for a product that is not consistently drawing in new customers. They have to make the money back some how, as well as gain the revenue to invest in such endeavors over the long-haul.

So, is this a good or bad change (NCSoft owning it all and promising such nice plans)? Time will tell. But I'll bet my annual salary there will be some serious business model changes for CoX in the coming 6-12 months.

Then, you decide how you feel.

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Well one thing you've forgotten. Now that Cryptic is out of the picture most of the money they earned for CoX is now in the hands of NCSoft (save whatever they are paying Cryptic to license the game engine and tools).

I would have to think Cryptic was getting the lion's share of profits from the CoX franchise, which now all goes back to NCSoft. With more money they can hire more people to work on creating more content, fixing more bugs, etc. etc. etc.

Now this is not to say that some of that extra cash isn't going to be diverted to propping up other *cough tabula rasa cough* titles, but more money all around is usually a good thing.

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I'm aware of how much it is. If you had read my posts I even gave material to it, 5-pieces off the Arby's 5-for-5 menu.

The point is that, yes, I am out $5. It doesn't matter if it is $5 or $5,000,000, the issue is that it is money that I am out.

Now, did you read what I was asking for? Did you read my suggestion?

7-10 days tacked on to my subscription.

I'm not asking for the moon and stars. I am simply asking for the $5 that even you admit I am "out" to be converted to an equal amount of time as if I had paid for it... because I did pay for it!

I'm not asking for a refund. I'm not asking for another whole month for that $5. I'm asking an amount of time that the $5 would have gotten me if I had been able to make such minimal payments. At $15/month, that's 1/3rd a month or... 7-10 days depending on which month you choose to pick (Feb 7, most others 10). I'm not even demanding that they pro-rate it at any of the more economical rates one gets for prepaying for months/a year in advance.

I fail to see how that is in any way unreasonable or unjustified given the specific circumstances. So far I have been given unreasonable responses.

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Yes, I know, I am weak... I am feeding a troll...

BUT

Let's say for [censored] and giggles you knew in advance the freebie expansion was coming. Since no date has been announced, you really don't know when it's coming. It could be next week, next month, who knows.

Is the $5 you paid (and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt in that you bought an online code, not a boxed retail version, cause if you did the latter then you really are pathetic in your mock-indignity) worth the extra enjoyment you've gotten from playing the game now, instead of waiting weeks?

I mean, how many hours of CoV have you logged since you bought it? 10? 20? More?

$5 won't get you into a 2 hour movie or buy 70 mins of music. For many people $5 is about 2-3 days of cable TV (for most that's maybe 4-6 hours worth during the week). Might get you a beer in a pub, or be enough for the cover charge.

So has the enjoyment you've gotten from playing CoV since you bought it worth $5?

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I frequently rack up debt and work it off for this very reason.

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That gives me an idea. Let's run it up the flagpole.

Here's a ThankYou that I think more people would appreciate. Maybe it's possible, maybe it's not, Maybe it's easy, maybe it's not. A Debt-Wipe token or clicky temp-power that can be activated at the player's discretion. Even better, make it transferable and sellable at WW/BM for those people who, for one reason or another, would never use such a thing. If they turn out to be at all popular, put a recipe for same into the drop tables like the respec recipe.

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Ok, maybe I'm missing something. I read the press release and email. I understand what's going on, and the "thank you"s that have been promised.

What I don't understand is why people are getting their panties all in a bunch cause they feel the "thank you" isn't enough?

Do you all feel that because the game has legally changed hands that you somehow deserve something other than a great game (as if the end of the reign of Emperor Jack isn't enough of a reward?)

Honestly, I just don't get it. They offer up a few niceties that ultimately are good for business, and happen to be a nice perk for some of the playerbase. But now everyone is bitchin' that the "reward" is not enough, simply because it's something they don't foresee personally benefiting from.

I just don't get the "gimme gimme gimme" attitude. Am I bothered that I bought both games and now some people are getting it for free? Not at all. Am I bothered that I won't get much from debt removal since most of my characters don't have any to begin with? Not at all. Am I bothered that large SGs are going to get a ton of prestige from this while those that aren't in SGs (or in very small ones) won't benefit? Not at all.

I pay to play a game. I feel, by and large, I get what I pay for. If it didn't, I would have stopped paying a long time ago. If the company wants to give away a few perks that I can't personally take advantage, y'know what, I really don't care. It doesn't affect me in any way at all. If I get something nice, hey that's cool. If I don't well, hey, that's fine too.

If you always *expect* to get something for free, you're more than likely going to be disappointed. If you're content with what you have, and happen to get a nice little benefit along the line, well that's just icing on the cake.

Stop expecting every little thing about this game to be all about you, and I imagine you'll all live longer, healthier lives with a LOT less stress.

I used to be very active in the forums and I simply can't put up with the whiny "me me me" attitudes anymore. It's a shame because I used to enjoy the lively discussion, but that's pretty much gone. All that's left now is a lot of whining, complaining, flaming, and trolling. I used to enjoy trying to help people in the technical support forums, but the last few times I went out of my way to try and help someone fix their problems all I got was attitude and grief. And those are two things I get plenty of in other parts of my life. I don't need it in my entertainment.

One piece of wisdom I can impart, even though it smacks of cliche: please don't feed the trolls. If someone posts ranting and raving, using extreme hyperbole, and is generally just being an [censored], just ignore them. Don't respond, don't reply, and above all else don't try and reason with them. They are just looking for a battle, not a discussion, and you simply will not win. When it's obvious that no one is paying any attention to their childish antics they will disappear from whence they came (and hopefully never be heard from again).

Part of me wonders why this sudden rash of impoliteness and attitude. I really don't know. Maybe it's because there are a lot of newer and/or younger players that simply do not have the social skills or don't understand that just because you CAN post doesn't mean you SHOULD post. Or maybe it's because (and this is by no means meant as a slight against them) Lighthouse and Ex Libris's ban sticks seem to get rather dusty while CuppaJo's was spit-polished, ready to go, day in and day out. I just don't know. What I do know is that it seems we're in a downward spiral around here, and that's really not a good thing.

OK, sorry to ask this as I know it kinda a lame question, and sorry if it's been asked before, but there is no way I'm going to wade thru all the whining in this thread...

But when they wipe out character debt, will that debt be applied towards the debt badges (as if you worked it off), or will it simply disappear? No biggie if it just vanishes, but if it can be done so that it applied towards the badges, that would be cool. I have one lvl 50 character that's my badge ho (450+ badges and counting!), and I frequently rack up debt and work it off for this very reason.

If I know in advance the debt won't be applied towards the badges I'll work off whatever debt she currently has before it's wiped out, and make sure I don't rack up more until after the purge.

Post deleted by Ex Libris

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Did you know....Newspaper missions

There is a bundle of City of Villain newspaper missions making references to pop culture. My personal favorites are "defeat ajax" (a character in the movie The Warriors who in the game yes is a warrior), Retreive the DRAGOON Ball (dragon ball reference?), & Save LARRY Croft (tomb raider?)

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Tons of them... There is Jake Emmett (reference to Statesman, aka Jack Emmert); and I do recall one guy named L. Jenkins, most likely LEEEEERRRROOOOOOOY!!!

Lois Watson, who is usually saved by her super hero boyfriend (and who exclaims when you rescue her "well, not who I was expecting..."), is an obvious tribute to Lois Lane and Superman.

I'm sure others can fill in lots more.