Beef_Cake

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You're complaining about being locked into something that you don't even know what it is. Isn't that a little premature?

Honestly? Not really.

What they are planning for Patron Powers is a baaaaaaad idea.

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I agree. We have sufficient information to complain. Better to do so now so the devs can realize that people aren't exactly hot on the idea.

Most of you old timers know that once this hits test the mechanics aren't going to change that much. Tweaks for balance, but the functionality is staying the same. I think it might be too late to make the patron pools respeccable, but it's probably not to late to add generic ancillary pools for villains that relate to their closest CoH AT.

So for people who don't want to make a permanent choice they could if they were a brute for instance go:

Stone Mastery
Fire Mastery
Energy Mastery (with CP swapped for something else)
Darkness Mastery

From the Tanker and Scrapper Ancillaries. I think that would make everyone happy. Well maybe not the devs, because I gather that many people would pass on the risk if the option were added.

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I think offering the other epic pools to the villains is a good idea, yeah it may bit a bit more work, but not much.

I think it would be great for those Rper's out there that don't feel there villain needs to be a Apprentice in the world of Anarchy. So if they choose not to go with a Patron, they may still go with the normal epic pools in which every COH hero has the option to do.

Otherwise, if these epics do not exist, you are pretty much forced to go with a patron for new powers or you can stay with the standard Pool Powers.

To me I could care less about everything, the permanent feature doesn't bother me too much, but it would be nice to have some hard numbers for these patron powers.

Even still, that does not say that these powers will be tweaked /nerfed in the future causing the player to wish he/she never had taken that specific Patron Power Set.

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Patron Powers are truly permanent. This powerset, once chosen, is as much a part of your character as your Name, Primary Powerset, Secondary Powerset, Body Type, and Origin.

There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one. This is because it is tied to specific content for that Patron.

Because of this, hard numbers are given, in-game, about the powers and what they do before you even choose which arc you wish to partake (and will most likely be available on the website as well).

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Posi, will these Patron Powers be treated as if they are epic power?

In other words, Once you hit level 41 you will have the option to select your patron and its powers from that patron.

So the Patron Powers will basically be the 5th Power Pool which is the equivalent of the Epic Powers in CoH

So if we choose to level our villain to level 50. is it still possible to accept a Patron at level 50 or would it be too late?

If we did not take a Patron, and we did level to 50. If we did a respec could we then select Patron Powers which we originally did not choose to go with previously?

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Cuppa,

Could we have a consolidated Isolator Thread? One arguement/idea per person, can only add a reply when a red name replys to the thread, etc..

I'd even be willing to start it

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I don't think they are going to do those anymore, as people wouldn't follow the rules.

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Sorry I wasnt clear.

Make this a Dev response topic.

It doesnt matter if someone cant follow the rules. If they cant, their post gets removed. Sounds simple to me.

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I think a Poll where you can not reply to the thread would be enough, it would be nice to see the numbers rather then arguements for once.

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Isolator to me is not a unique badge, it is a badge to cause arguements such as this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]Isolator - you now have a badge that has caused great strife in the Hero ranks.

Sad, sad thing about this badge on Infernal Night I actually had the chance to get it post-Outbreak due to a bug that sent me back there after a defeat once. Had an SG mate have the same thing happen. Of course, that would be exploiting a bug... Ah well.

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You are a better man then me, because I would have gotten the badge.

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Many people want more uniqueness for their characters, I know I do.



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uniqueness is a great idea and I would accept that, if it were something along the lines of certain ATs get this badge, and other ATs get this badge..ect..ect.. a badge designed for each and every AT, not a badge that is available to everyone such as Isolator.

Isolator to me is not a unique badge, it is a badge to cause arguements such as this thread.

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Please show me where in this thread someone said give us isolator but keep the others special.

I would like to see who said that myself.

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I'll be honest, I really don't want to go back and hunt through thirty-plus pages of thread; several people have tried to argue that the event badges are "different" when asked why they shouldn't be brought back. Though most of them haven't outright said, "We don't want you to have them," the strong implication is there in some of the posts.

That said: this debate doesn't exist just on this thread, and I have heard many people make this argument in the game proper. Heck, there was a raging debate over this on a certain badgers channel which shall remain nameless back at Halloween, when it became apparent that the Halloween badges would not be offered for a second year. Some of the gloating and self-high-fiving among those who had the badges was...well, juvenile, to say the least. And many of them are the same people who complain about Isolator not being available to them.

Needless to say, it left a bad taste in my mouth.

I have no problem with someone saying, "I think all players should have a fair shot at all the badges." If someone's saying that, I don't have an issue with them. Nor do I have an issue with someone who believes that NO character should be able to get all the badges.

It's when someone thinks that HE (or she) should be able to get all the badges...but that the same shouldn't apply to others...that I have a problem with it.

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And I agree, because I specificaly said in one of my previous threads that the Special event badges are special, but may return to the near future for those events again, and if they do the great that way others can get these badges that they never had the chance to get.

Like I said before its part of the game people enjoy, its not a contest, nor do we win a brand new home or boat or car, its just for fun, and when you are prevented from some things in this game such as a badge, it less fun for the people who really enjoy that part of the game.

To someone who could care less about badges, they will never understand just as I will never understand what is soo important about costumes, but I never said no don't alloow this or don't allow that. Why because thats what others enjoy, and the dev team is always wanting to please everyone and they should try to, because thats what keeps people playing, and the more options and fun players have will bring even more players to the game.

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I was forced to go through tutorial when I created my hero, I know I defeated/arrested more then 100 contaminated when I was there in Outbreak, hell I may have defeated /arrested more then 200 because I was there with a team of 8 (which were my friends) when we all started this game.

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You're honestly trying to get us to believe that you and 7 other friends sat there in Outbreak for however long it took you to kill 100 or even 200 Infected in spawns of 2? For no gain or any other kind of reason whatsoever when you could have just gone on to the rest of the game after just killing 6 of them?!

Heck, even after knowing about the badge and its requirements, it got really boring just after 40 or so. I'm sorry, but I find this claim almost impossible to believe.

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Whether you belive me or not, I could care less. I know what we did, and by waiting around for other friends to get thier accounts logged in and set up some of use were messing around killing contaminted, then when everyone was in Outbreak we all ran missions, so yes we killed well over 100 to earn this badge, not knowing in the furutre it would exist, but for fun we did this and had a blast doing so, I even recall some of our friends rerolling heroes because they didnt like what they rolled so we all waited and continued to kill more.

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Event badges have also been brought back. Lets see, can anyone say "Cold Warrior?" Is that badge now cheapened since it was not earned during the first winter event?

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OMG, I feel so low now, that others have this badge, Im honestly think I should drop this game I feel so cheap now

/sarcasm

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You are, of course, free to disagree, Rad; that doesn't change the fact that no really valid reason has been given yet for why characters who were around before I2 deserve the opportunity to obtain all of the badges, and those who came later should not.

Now, me--I don't care one way or the other if Isolator is made available; I simply believe that all players should have the same opportunities.

Those who are saying, "Give us Isolator, but keep the event badges off-limits, because they're different" are practicing elitism, pure and simple--and elitism tainted with more than a whiff of hypocrisy.

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Please show me where in this thread someone said give us isolator but keep the others special.

I would like to see who said that myself.

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Some players who have toons in one of those two categories would like to get it for those toons.

Other players don't want those toons to get it. Most common reason seems to be because it "cheapens" the badge. Second most common reason is "you can't always get what you want so stop crying about it you pansies."

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If someone hold that opinion they are sick in the head. I am one of those 50's that did not get a chance to get it (pre I2). I am a badge collector and I am sitting at 268. Being there are over 300 some-odd badges, is the Isolator badge the only special one there is? I look at people who have Liberator or Charmed badge as special. I do not have those 2, but if I have a strong enough desire, I can earn those badges. The Isolator was N/A. I didn not choose to pass on it. If I did, I could understand the point.

I have all the 2004 Halloween Badges and if they decided to make them available again, I would not feel it would cheapen them. Lets face it, badges are personal acheivement (except for accolades). So why would anyone not want someone to have access to the badge that they might want to add to their collection?

Dedacation to the game from day 1 should not be punished!

Power to the people!

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very simple, by allowing the system to let pre-i2 heroes a chance to get this now, will cheaping...hmmm..cheapin..

I hear this term a lot when it comes to this game.

The term cheapin in this thread is the adult term equal to ...

"HAHA I have it and you don't!" without making themselves look and sound like jackasses.


This badge mean no more or no less then what it is now, if everyone had this badge or didnt have this badge, so don't hand me this cheaping crap. Im sick of hearing the lameass term.

So no matter if we pre-i2 heroes actually did the work to earn the badge, whether we defeated 2000 containinted, you could care less,. So what you are saying to me is "Screw fairness, you missed it, tough [censored]! I have it and you will never get it, if you dont like it then quit"

Thats nice, hey thanks, glad to know your point of view and why we pre-i2 heroes shouldn't have it at all, because everyone who does have Isolator has something that we can't get, so I guess that makes it unique.

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You will never get Beef-Cake, Mna_Grok, you and I to agree on this issue. We are not going to convience each other. And that is expdentionally more accurate for the ENTIRE player base on most issues.

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QFT.

The most we can hope for now is to keep discussing this issue civily, but I think that we have started down the slope towards modsmack.

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Agreed. Some people are 100% against it - some are 100% for it - and neither will change their minds. Now it's all up to the Devs. Your voices were heard! Thanks for the feedback on it.

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*sings and skips*

I got a Dev reply!!
I got a Dev reply!!
I got a Dev reply!!
I got a Dev reply!!

*trips and falls*
I bent my wookie...

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OMG! HAHAHA

TOO FUNNY

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Completely different scenario here, we are talking about a possible customer looking to commit theft, rather then us asking for a badge we deserve.

Did this customer deserve the pliers? Sure, but does he deserve them for the lower price because he found them in a 99 cent bin? No, why because he may have said they were there to try and get away with a 99 cent deal or some kid placed them there by mistake, as long as the price was on the pliers then the customer was wrong.

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Correct, and I agree (as did the manager apparently). And incidentally, I don't believe that there was a price tag on the pliers, they had to find where the pliers actually belonged to price it.

But guess what he was yelling at the manager?

That's why citing the claim that the customer is always right usually at best stagnates your argument. If there's a good reason to get what it is that you want, it should be something past because you're right.

And I think that totally applies here. There are a lot of customers, whose positions you disagree with (and I understand your position, I just disagree completely), but who feel that this change would be wrong. And their "customer is always right" factor (for lack of a better term) is just as important as yours, so it's totally inapplicable to this issue.

The same really goes for the fairness argument, IMO. Which of course is why I think that it not mattering is really the most compelling argument, but overall falls short of the mark of convincing me.

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I understand your post and I agree, but in this scenario where pre-i2 heroes never had the chance without deleting their heroes, were never given the chance to earn this badge on their main heroes.

And as Burnin said earlier, no other badge has been introduced to this game that could not be obtained by any hero that already exists.

So why should this badge? I was forced to go through tutorial when I created my hero, I know I defeated/arrested more then 100 contaminated when I was there in Outbreak, hell I may have defeated /arrested more then 200 because I was there with a team of 8 (which were my friends) when we all started this game.

Since then badges were introduced, and again data mining was not going to happen so there fore could not get it, mind you i was level 50 when this happened, so I was not about to reroll.

So, with all of that, I feel myself and many many others who honestly defeated/arrested the (x) contaminated should be given the option to get it since they were denied the reward which everyone gets today.

So whether it convinces you or anyone else, this is what I feel should be done for the pre-i2 heroes as they deserve every right to earn that badge as anyone else.

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You will never get Beef-Cake, Mna_Grok, you and I to agree on this issue. We are not going to convience each other. And that is expdentionally more accurate for the ENTIRE player base on most issues.

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QFT.

The most we can hope for now is to keep discussing this issue civily, but I think that we have started down the slope towards modsmack.

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Agreed. Some people are 100% against it - some are 100% for it - and neither will change their minds. Now it's all up to the Devs. Your voices were heard! Thanks for the feedback on it.

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heya Cuppa, and thanks for the post, makes us feel good when we know you guys and gals are watching us and care about what we all think

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Contrary to popular belief, the customer is not always right. Using "what the customer wants is what the customer gets" as the way to run a business is a very shortsighted way to do so.


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Well I'm sorry to inform you that you are wrong here. In a business world, the customer is alwaysright whether you personally feel they are or not. By making the customer happy will ensure that this customer will return to your business and spend more money.

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Cherrypicking, I admit, but, if this is the case, how is microsoft still in business? How are nearly any large businesses in business?

Customer (singular) is usually wrong.

Customers (plural) might be right

How about the time I went to Home Depot, and some guy was complaining that he found some pair of pliers on a rack that simply said 99 cents. The manager looked up the actual price, and they were 20 dollars. The customer demanded that he be given it for 99 cents, and the manager, not being an idiot, flat out refused.

Do you really believe the manager made a bad decision?

Customers who think that "the customer is always right" are just trying to sidestep all logic that goes against what they want.

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Completely different scenario here, we are talking about a possible customer looking to commit theft, rather then us asking for a badge we deserve.

Did this customer deserve the pliers? Sure, but does he deserve them for the lower price because he found them in a 99 cent bin? No, why because he may have said they were there to try and get away with a 99 cent deal or some kid placed them there by mistake, as long as the price was on the pliers then the customer was wrong.

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Contrary to popular belief, the customer is not always right. Using "what the customer wants is what the customer gets" as the way to run a business is a very shortsighted way to do so.


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Well I'm sorry to inform you that you are wrong here. In a business world, the customer is alwaysright whether you personally feel they are or not. By making the customer happy will ensure that this customer will return to your business and spend more money.


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Again I ask... then why hasnt ED been reversed? Sometimes Beef_Cake its best to NOT do what the customer wants. The way businesses REALLY work (yes welcome to reality) is to apease the majority. In this case the majority of the players want new content. Period.

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Because this has to deal witha complete redesign of a game and or company, not a small thing a s acostume piece or a slice of cheese

But I guess you could understand that part of my previous post. So I hope this clears it up for you.

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Contrary to popular belief, the customer is not always right. Using "what the customer wants is what the customer gets" as the way to run a business is a very shortsighted way to do so.


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Well I'm sorry to inform you that you are wrong here. In a business world, the customer is alwaysright whether you personally feel they are or not. By making the customer happy will ensure that this customer will return to your business and spend more money.

I know I own and operate my own business. And if I were to keep the mentality of the customer is not always right with my employees, I would be doing a lot less business. As would any other business.

Now if a customer comes to me and says , I do not like the design of your store, please change it, then yeah this is something far greater then what we are talking about here. We are speaking of a simple badge/slice of cheese. Not a complete remodel of your business.

By giving the customer what he/she wants such as a badge /slice of cheese, will not effect the way the business is run, destroy your business, or effect the future customer who order a cheese burger/new hero.

So by someone giving me my slice of cheese/badge to make me as a customer happy, will not destroy or manipulate the way future business will run for this company or any other company. If I receive this slice of cheese/badge it will not change the taste of the other slices of cheese, nor will it change the meaning of the badge.

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You buy a regular hamburger and start eating it. You get a couple of bites in and then see that they have started putting cheese on them as well. You, liking cheese, want to have cheese on your hamburger, so you go back to the counter and ask for cheese. Unfortunately, they say no because you have already started eating your hamburger. However, you can get a new hamburger with cheese (let's call it a cheeseburger for lack of a better term ) and enjoy that.


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Wow! This is a sad anology here if I have ever seen one.

Ya know I actually had this problem once, I ordered a hamburger and I was not thinking and I ate half of my hamburger when I realized I want the cheese. So I go back to the counter and told the worker I would like cheese on this burger as I did not realize it didnt have any.

The worker then went to the back and grabbed a slice of cheese and gave it to me. She did not tell me to throw away my hamburger and force me to buy another. She simply gave me the slice of cheese and said Thank you for being a valued customer, please come back.

And ya know what, when I consumed that cheeseburger, I came back and back for more each and everyday.

This is the way a business is suppose to work, and if you disagree with that then you will never understand customer satisfaction.

I would love to see the reactions of the many anti-isolator players out there that are badge collectors, if they made all new content including badges that are in lower zones to be made available to all low level heroes or villains. And prevent the higher level hero and or villain from getting these new badges and or content on the next patch.

I bet all of the anti-isolator badge collectors out there would think a little different then what they are thinking now. Because they too would think the choice of the dev team was unacceptable as we do now.

I would love to be given the chance to tell people to deleted all their hard work and start over again and again and again...lol

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if I was denied the content because I had passed it, then there would be a entirely different topic on the forums now wouldn't it

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But you DID pass it... you passed the tutorial on your Main. And now you want to go back and get the reward for something you passed, when it would have been soo easy to just roll a new toon then. But alass you choose NOT to and yet you still want your reward.

I fail to understand what is so tough for you all to grasp... It was a choice that each of you made... To go back and earn isolator or not. Those that chose not to now want their reward, sorry if you get no sympathy from me.

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No, actually I did do the content in Outbreak just as everyone is doing now to earn the Isolator, I did not go back because there was future hopes in this badge being in the game later on as I leveled up.

And hey if you want me to delete my character and erase all the time and money and effort I put into that hero, I will gladly do so when Cryptic and or maybe you reimburse me for my time I spent with this character and refund me some money because I was forced to delete my hero to get something I should have rightfully been awarded in the first place.

If you deleted your hero to get a badge, then that was your choice to do so, maybe you have millions of dollars in your pocket and could care less, but me I work for my money and I know the value of my dollar so I'm not about to throw it away. And for a business to make a choice of such nature to even think of telling their customer base to waste their money in which they worked hard to get only to pay it to a company for entertainment to be thrown away is absolutely ridiculous.

You are correct, I could not get the temp powers because I had already past that level range, but I was still able to experience the content. As for Souvenirs, the contacts do not offer them, nor does the TF so I lost nothing there.

I was able to get all the badges even though I outleveled the zone. I was able to complete the TF, I was able to collect "ALL " of the badges.

If I was denied this content because I had passed it, then there would be a entirely different topic on the forums now wouldn't it

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Ask your friend if there's any other MMP in existence where one can experience "all" the content.

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Now to me that is quite clear that he doesn't think that one character can experience all the content as well.

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Well that statement may be for the common player.

But I have been through everything in this game with my main. "Everything"

The only thing I'm missing is the Isolator, and this is another reason as to why I personally would like the chance to get it.

Every contact is complete, I have every Souvenir in the game since day 1 up until now.

I even went as far as running Shadow Shard missions over and over again, and for those who don't run the Shadow Shard mission, it is very repetitive and never ending string of missions that has no ending.

There is nothing is this game my main hero has not done, except for collect the badge Isolator.

So yes, you can call me a completist as I do like to enjoy every bit of content in this game, I paid for it why not.

I can understand why he would say you are not intended to experience it all, is because it's a business comment saying they want you to roll alts to go back and do things you missed, hoping to keep you as a paying customer longer. But he did say "Intended" which means not suppose to but, it is possible.

To this day I'm still here and have numerous Alts that have reached 50 and a few that have not, and I plan to stay with this game to the end, as I enjoy it very much but to not award someone what they honestly earned is not a cool thing and I'm hoping in the future it is allowed to go back and get this badge or make a way for the people who missed it another chance to get it.

As for giving the badge the same name with different text, I could live with that. As long as its called "Isolator"

Since most people feel that we should not have this badge because it says "You started your career..."

Then have the badge say ....

"You have continued your career as a hero, by personally keeping on top of the riots of contaminated thugs preventing them from enter Paragon City"

But I would personally like the original badge as I too started my career there and did what everyone else did to earn this badge. I felt cheated when data mining did not exist and therefore I lost the chance to get the reward for doing what others do now.

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1) Did you kill 100 Contaminated while you were there?


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Absolutely, I had a huge arguement with support when they said they were not going to be datamining the kills before the badges were implimented, the only thing that was datamined was mission badges and TF badges.

I ran Outbreak with my friends doing each of my missions and then each of their missions, not to mention the fun we had killing loads of them in the zone itself, then the missions kills, so I know we killed as a group way more then 100 of them.


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2) Did you read up on all the content that was available in the game prior to going through Outbreak?


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Yes, but badges did not exist when I went through Outbreak with my friends, so in all honesty, there was really no reason to kill 100 of them, unless it was for fun.

So at the time I was in Outbreak there was no badge info to read up on.

By the time badges were implimented, my main hero which is my tank was already level 50 and had every badge that was datamined when badges went live.

Again, if I would have known that the isolator badge was not going to be awarded outside of Outbreak when I chose to not to delete my hero, I may have thought seriously about it rather then telling people to kiss my [censored]!.

But at that time, I had no choice of knowing what to do, a few people deleted and rerolled too without knowing this badge would ever be given out outside of outbreak. So they got lucky in the long run.

Is it my fault, no I do not think it is my blame I do not have this badge, I feel it is poor judgement of the dev team and should have datamined this badge for the many who did not delete and reroll there hero.

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I was not going to delete a level 50 where I spent all of my time and money to get him to 50 for a badge.

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And thats the crux of the problem.... you had a choice... you made yours. Others did choose to delete (or simply create a new toon). The point is, you made your choice TO NOT earn Isolator back then, so WHY should you be rewarded now?


That folks is the problem in a nutshell... and exactly why I hope Positron is paying attention and decides to NEVER give a way to earn isolator...

Beefcake, you and others made your choice... dont punish those of us who made the other choice.

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Reading comprehension is a serious problem for you isnt it.

I said if I would have know that isolator was not going to be available outside of outbreak at the time badges were introduced then I may have chose to reroll, but no one knew as no GM or Dev would release any information on badges back then and hell they still don't today.

I repeated myself to you again, how many more times before you comprehend what I am saying?

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If you or anyone else is jealous of that , then thats your problem you too can accomplish the same thing if you are dedicated as I am.

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I am dedicated.... I have isolator, ofcourse I was smart enough to restart my toon

As for your badge count.... I wouldnt take pride in finding ways to exploit wholes in the game system that the devs overlooked... for example: earning the badge for defeating Kronos... that should be a hero only badge, yet your proudly boast that you've earned it. Even after Pos has said that this was a mistake. The fact that you want to increase your badge count by earning Isolator falls in this category as well... sad, very very sad

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And yet this so called exploit/cheating/loopholes you as call it can be justified by a PM I sent to CuppaJo asking if this was working ok, and if it wasnt would the badge be removed and she replied to me specifically that "This is the way ambushes work, If you can earn the badge on your villain it will not be taken away"

If you would like I will gladly do a screen shot of this and show you. OH but wait, I amy no how to edit pictures since Im soo good at exploiting!

HAHAHA