Aura_Familia

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positron already said corrs will get storm...meaning empathy is out.

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doh forgot about that.



But again, I hope that defenders/controllers don't get thermal then.

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So, was I reading it right that each AT will get one primary and secondary power from its corresponding AT? If so that's awesome!

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Every AT gains at least 1 powerset -- Masterminds only get a Secondary, no new Primary. Brutes get 2 new Primaries, and 1 secondary. Everyone else gets 1 Primary and 1 Secondary.

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Mastermind <Kinetics>
Brute <Mace, Axe, Super Relfexes>
Doms <Illusion, Electric>
Corrs <Electric, Storm>
Stalkers <Ice Armor, Ice Melee>
Trollers <Plant, Thermal>
Defenders <Ice, Cold Dom>
Tankers <Dark Melee, Dark Armor>
Blasters <Psychic Blast, ???>
Scrappers <Electric Melee, Electric Armor>

Just my guesses.

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I would be miffed if controllers get thermal but villans dont get empathy.

Just saying.

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It's still just more hero content shoveled onto villains.

Yeah, so I'm kinda Angry about this issue. Colour me disappointed.

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That's understandable. The lack of independent (from heroes and Arachnos) content that is truly villainous is still disappointing.

I don't believe that takes away from the merits of what they are adding though. It's just not the toy that has been asked for.

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yeah with the RWZ we have co-op and now with this Midnight group and roman zone we have co-adventure (both in the same zone and possibly doing things that are next to each other but not co-op).

I think I this point I agree it'd be nice to get some uniquely villan content.

Though I'm not too fond of being linked to arachnos (even if it is to destroy them ), i like that this issue did have one thing villan only: villan epic at.

In the future I'd like some more exclusive villan content to be intro'd in parallel to the rest of issues "for everyone" content.

To Angry: Angry, what do you think of the powerset prolif? (At least from what little we've heard). Surely you can't be disappointed in that?

For me (and I bet some other regular zone pvpers) THAT is the best part of the issue!

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*sigh* Way to screw villains YET AGAIN.

*HIGHLY disappointed with the "epic" archetype*

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Jezus. Can we have your stuff now?

Be excited about something for once. This is really nice. Very, very good changes and improvements, new zones, .... but no, *you* wanted something else.

make your own damn game. Then you'll be happy.

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Hey thats a pretty legitimate complaint though. Villains are RIGHT back with Arachnos. I can't wait till the RPers get ahold of this. Alot of em are gonna be pissed lol.

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my impression is that you are now fulfilling your role as a Destined One, which is to bascially screw Arachnos and everyone else.

but we'll see...

If I see Empathy for villans I will die happy.

Seriously.

Best thing I've read: Powerset Prolification.

Axe Brutes.

Does this mean they figured out the patron powers issue?

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... wait. These things give a buff to you AND YOUR TEAM?

So what happens if a team of 8 people get together, all running their buffing pets?

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Oh sweet mother mary.

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You have to get to lvl 41 before you can experience for yourself if PPP's suck. How would this stop new players from entering the rogue isles?


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People follow the rainbow because there is a pot of gold at the end.

This is Villain side

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I LOL'd.

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Sure:
1. Get the villan population up: fix the glaring things that people have been clamoring for months and are the main cause of folks. PPPs, being one. PVP imbalances.


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I doubt that the PPP's and PvP imbalances are what's keeping the villain population low.

You have to get to lvl 41 before you can experience for yourself if PPP's suck. How would this stop new players from entering the rogue isles?

PvP imbalances don't really show themselves unless you spend a heck of a lot of time PvPing. Not many people devote a ton of time to PvP before reaching 50.

I do agree with your other points, but that one just doesn't make sense to me.

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Actually you'd be surprised how many folks state those as exactly why they don't play villanside more.

But yeah the other points are more likely.

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So, would you rather have the Lady Gray TF or a revamped Positron?

I'd rather have a revamped Positron.

Old, broken content should be fixed or removed, not left out to fester where everyone can see it, no matter how much shiny new stuff is propped up next to it.

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/em raises hand.

At this point I would have to agree.

It gives a VERY bad impression to new players who exprience this. The difference between one end of the game and the other is starting to get glaring.

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Also, the LGTF is not a requirement for an accolade. Posi is. If you want the accolade, you have to go through that POS.

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didn't even think of that. LOL

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I can outlevel the TF just by running it.

Task Forces in CoX are never outlevelled. If a new Positron TF was created, it would be new content for every player with a level 10-50 character.

Oh, and the Katie TF is not "fast and exciting". It is a joke in bad taste. To be fair, it wasn't that bad before C drops, but under the current system it's way too easy....

Snaptooth: Activate the unnecessarily-slow soul-draining monoliths!
Scottooth: Wait, we're not going to just kill her?
Snaptooth: No, I have planned an elaborate and easily-escaped exotic demise for her. Now let's go.
Scottooth: You're not even going to stay and watch?!
Snaptooth: No, I will assume she dies according to plan...what?
Scottooth: Look, I've got all kinds of magic weapons back at my place. Give me a few seconds, I'll grab one, BANG, we'll kill her together. It'll be fun!
Snaptooth: You just don't get it, do you?
Scottooth: She's gonna get rescued!
Snaptooth: Shush!
Scottooth: But...
Snaptooth: Shush!
Scottooth: We could...
Snaptooth: Shush! Shush! That was a preemptive shush! I've got a Bag of Holding full of shush! with your name on it!

Katie doesn't need to be proliferated to the villain side. It needs to go. It should be turned off, or have its C drop removed until it can be revamped. And please don't try to play the "you have to kill Mary 10 times" card. Killing Mary Macomber 10 times is easier than killing Ghost Widow or Mako once.

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*shudders* I'm agreeing with Venture A LOT.

All jokes aside, I need state this line again:

Killing Mary Macomber 10 times is easier than killing Ghost Widow or Mako once.

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Apparently the Devs disagree whether softspawning TFs is hurting someone. It hurt someone enough that they ordered man-hours to fixing it.

Perhaps some other method of supporting the villain economy could be suggested? One that doesn't require spawning TFs for 8 and then soloing them?

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Sure:
1. Get the villan population up: fix the glaring things that people have been clamoring for months and are the main cause of folks. PPPs, being one. PVP imbalances.

2. Merge the markets.

3. Strip nonsense drops from pool C and put them somehwere else.

Most realistic one I can think of:

4. Create some other non-tf related way to get the Pool C drops.

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So, would you rather have the Lady Gray TF or a revamped Positron?

I'd rather have a revamped Positron.

Old, broken content should be fixed or removed, not left out to fester where everyone can see it, no matter how much shiny new stuff is propped up next to it.

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/em raises hand.

At this point I would have to agree.

It gives a VERY bad impression to new players who exprience this. The difference between one end of the game and the other is starting to get glaring.

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I thought the trigger for the table exploding was one of my characters going, "ooh! Table! Can I craft anything right now?"

BOOM.

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HA HA!

I'm glad they listened to us on this.

HOWEVER, I would prefer if they didn't do ANYTHING AT ALL to tfs till they could get the minimum number of players down to 4 for all of them (except maybe the LRSF and STF) AND trimmed/retooled some of the older craptastic ones. (*cough* Positron *cough*)

But that's just me.

EDIT: But folks by now know I'm from the do it right or don't do it at all camp. Also I'm not understanding the logic of doing something this game-wide affecting with "imbetween" patches. To me ANY changes to TFs this should have been part an ISSUE Closed Beta and NOT released to live until everything for it (including the stuff I listed above) was repaired.

To me, this is like if they had tried to retool Hamdion after issue 8, with rushed "inbetween" patches.



EDIT2: And before anyone tries to say, sorry but "well they had to fix an exploit" is not really acceptable especially now that they've rolled out THIS change. The best thing to do would be to do all the changes AT ONCE (thus my suggestion for this being part of an ISSUE closed beta--also giving the opportunity to vet out any potential bugs [it affecting flashback for example]) and get it right based on ALL player feedback. Especially after the suggestions to trim the older stf mission junk have been up on these fourms for a looooooooooong time.

Again, I'm glad they listened to us, BUT it just feels they are trying to do the old "just throw it up there and see what sticks" method for retooling tfs because they don't have time to go through every tf and "fix them correctly". Not a good thing.

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LOL seeing as I jsut did this yesterday on my fire/kin and know of 5 others already liking that this is making farming easier and the pages of discussion on this in this thread?


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I'm well aware of pages in this thread where I show that farming will not be impacted, if thats what you are refering to.

But please... provide details.

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And all were proving false.

Go re-read the thread.

Still waiting on that link btw.

EDIT: I'm off for now all. I'll check back to see if we have that evidence we've been asking for.

Later.

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Also one would think by now that devs can tell when certain changes will make farming EASIER.

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Ignoring everything else you said, because this popped out at me..

Where are you getting this information?
Why do you feel this will make farming easier?

There is no basis for that claim. Zero. Zip. Notta.

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LOL seeing as I jsut did this yesterday on my fire/kin and know of 5 others already liking that this is making farming easier and the pages of discussion on this in this thread?

Uh huh suurree.

Still waiting on that link btw.

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I'm not going to assume that at all. Since those requests for tf changes were requested a long time ago.

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Huh?

We already know that TF changes are in the works. Thats a Red Name stated fact.

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Unless you provide me with a redname quote I call bs.

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It was in an Interview IIRC... currently searching for it, but it does exist.

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Stating that they would be doing this in issue 12? Not likely. But i'll humor you.

Find the link.

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If Lighthouse, can not even tell us accurately the requirements to form task forces are, then why the heck should we trust them to fix this properly?

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Because Lighthouse = Dev

True Story

Lighthouse is so far removed from the development of this game its sickening. His job (which most of you clearly dont understand) is Forum Moderator. He has ZERO say in the game. He has ZERO say in the programming of the game. He has ZERO say in the decissions of the game.

Its not far removed to realize that he doesnt know everything about this game. Even if his cubicle is 10ft from Castle's.

I'm really shocked at how few of you understand that.

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Right but one would think one would know about the actual game of which they are forum moderator.

I'm shocked you don't understand that.

Also one would think that he would be in the loop on such a major change.

Also one would think that by now the patch notes system would be improved.

Also one would think by now that devs can tell when certain changes will make farming EASIER.

I'm shocked you don't understand that.

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I'm not going to assume that at all. Since those requests for tf changes were requested a long time ago.

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Huh?

We already know that TF changes are in the works. Thats a Red Name stated fact.

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Unless you provide me with a redname quote I call bs.

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Lighthouse opened the door to all this by saying:
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We want to continue to offer good rewards based on a group accomplishment through such missions and maintaining that requirement is the reason for this change.

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Which shows that NCNC understands that this change affects rewards, length, and team size requirements.

The point is why don't you?

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*sigh* My point is, as I've been saying all along, is that its probably already being worked on Internally (and probably even apart of I12)

Just because its not immediate, which is what you want, makes it wrong?!? No, just no. If its in the pipes, then its perfectly acceptable.


Now, with that said.... if by I12 we havent heard of alterations being made to TFs... then trust me, I'll be the first one leading the crusade to have them altered Immediately.

But as it stands this minute.... we have to assume that they are well aware & are already taking steps to address these issues. Thus anything we do, say, etc in this regard are purely suggestions.

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I'm not going to assume that at all. Since those requests for tf changes were requested a long time ago. I don't assume anything related to changes is in the next immeadieate issue publish. Espcially with what happened with ED and IOs.

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The rewards of a TF, the length of various TFs, and the team size requirements of those TFs should all be addressed elsewhere.

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Absolutely not!

They are tied so closely to this change that to put this change in place without fixing these issues means that this fix is broken.


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have to partially agree.

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All this change does is ensure that you comply with what the NPC states, has stated for years, and will continue to state.

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In real terms, what this change does is introduce a cartload more obligatory work in the hope that you will keep a team of a certain size in order to tackle it.

Increased obligatory work for a mere CHANCE of adequate compensation = very very bad.

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QFT. If all the Pool C recipes were created equal, I could see disagreeing with this statement. But seeing as how no one in their right mind can dare say they are, this statement is spot on Lady.

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How is arranging a large block of uninterrupted time a challenege? It's like the challenge of "earning $X a year" or "living in North Dakota." Those are things that, while malleable, are usually thought of as beyond the scope of a game.


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All challenges in the game require you to make a minimum amount of money, live in one of several locations, and invest a minimum amount of time. It's just a matter of degree.

I do agree that the TFs should not be long just to be long. But any content that is designed for teams, is by definition designed for people with a certain amount of organizational skills. The longer the team has to stay together, the better those skills (and the better knowledge of the participants) has to be.

Some % of challenges are not intended for PUGs. I beleive that some TFs should be PUG friendly, and that some should not be. Ideally, they'd also be labeled that way.

All of the content should be fun and part of an engaging story. But part and parcel of the TF concept as realized in this game is "you must have x people to start, and y people to be able to finish it".

It also follows logically that any mission that requires you to defeat an AV should requre a minimum of 6 people, since AVs are designed to be a challenge for 6 people. Except when they're not.

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Except that there isn't much consistency in some of the things you stated.

Prime example: Some AVs are most certainly NOT a challenge at all for 6 people. Others most certainly are.

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Why did it take them two days to "find" the patch notes or to comment?

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Office chaos. LH clearly wasn't in the loop, as his now-deleted comments about it being a bug reveal.

Now, is anyone actually going to answer my question? If you're going to make conspiracy theories, then the person(s) doing the conspiring have to have something to gain by it.

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I don't believe in consipracy theories and I don't know what there is to gain. If you were to re-read my post you would understand this.

I just can't see how it's possible to take TWO DAYS to find patch notes when the players have already figured out the changes. It's not like the patch notes are hidden in a secret catacomb that the devs must face in order to obtain the correct list.

Not a conspiracy but a legitmate reason the rednames didn't comment:

The knew this fixed an exploit (softloading) and they knew many many players would become upset. They chose to let the players find the changes once live. They knew there would be a big ado so they stayed quiet as to not add fuel to the fire. Once they felt the fire are subsided some, they posted their official response.

No conspiracies just common sense. Two days to find patch notes? C'mon...

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That just shows how poor their patching documentation is.

EDIT: To be clear I'm not annoyed that they made the change, I'm just wishing it would have come with a revamping of TFs which was mentioned FIRST a while ago. Also the fact that this actually favors even MORE farming shows it might have not been the best way to do it.

Also, more importantly, I'd like them to fix their patching noting process.

3 patchnotes left off the notes in so many days is a problem.