Yogi_Bare

Please don't change the context of what I'm saying by omission (24 is a big number but not for a bunch of newbie Incarnates; the fact is that you don't need 24 once you come out of your waterwings)

Anyhoo:

I'm more inclined to think that part of it is the intentionally incremental Incarnate progression vs. the player expectations of what that progressions should be.

The Devs want to release this a little at a time; moving fledgling Incarnates towards their realized potential - Players think they're full fledged Incarnates already; criticizing accordingly.

I think one of the biggest errors they made with the Incarnate content was assuming that its playerbase wanted anything incrementally; especially at the increments they are wanting to follow. (Proven by the popularity of PLing and the extents players were willing to go to get T4s despite the knowledge that more options were in the works.)

Personally, I think the Dev focus should've been more solo and small team Incarnate arcs (from a variety of story lines) to ease people into the system (with Trials being released less frequently as longer, harder challenge content instead of them being the core content) and I think that played heavily on how the story came out.

However, with all the Praetoria-hate and want-it-NOW-incarnate drek I've seen on the forums; I can understand how a development team would feel pressure to rush things along... and it shows.

Finally, the writing is only a small part of the presentation; writers don't create the[] story then watch as gameplay spontaneously shoots out of their posterior. It's a mixed process that involves a lot of things within a short amount of time. Sometimes it gels together nicely... sometimes it doesn't.

Nothing worth getting the torches and pitchforks out over.

I'm surprised that Lex Luthor hasn't pulled something of this magnitude already; especially under the Public Enemies train of thought:

Using normals as both meat-shields and coup de gras while a couple of heavies pin Supes down with Kryptonite beams.


There are discrepancies between solo and team titled comics; there will be discrepancies here.

The big picture is that, combined, this is a threat to two worlds. And trust me, I understand that 24 seems to be a big number for the threat presented but:

In time, that number can be decreased (with experience (learning to walk and all)

Mechanics and balance dictate creating a challenge that a normal sized team can't learn to steamroll

[CoX population doesn't seem to want to (or can't handle) WW level raiding difficulty]

In some cases; but I've seen the argument made (right on these forums) that a return to Golden Age sensibilities are in order (costumes, NPC, plots).

It's also some of these outmoded Golden (and Silver) Age works that command the highest dollar and/or respect.

And not everyone would agree with you that the medium has improved much (despite its growth).

Yes, some people in this thread are saying they're too uber (or at least should be) [hence the opinion of 'stupid plot device']. Maybe that's not what you're saying... but that does not mean its [not] being said.

This is [how an abundance of] heroic fiction works, sorry.

Whether its an episode of Stargate, Star Trek, Sanctuary or movie like Independence Day, Star Wars, etc. It's usually an improbable plot device that ultimately wins the day.

If I'm not mistaken, Prometheus already addresses this issue as non-critical. I think its supposed to be fluff (or bonus)...

The main problem is the characters coming into these trials are already too powerful for any normal enemy presentation to be taken as a challenge.

There either has to be additional mechanics or insanely powerful NPCs to keep the players from walking over the content like its nothing. (Or a combo of both)

And, true to form, an improbable loophole that allows the protagonist to overcome those same mechanics/NPCs.

You don't honestly believe that do you? I can point out at least two industries that say otherwise.

The argument here is the same as it was when the content first came out, "My toon is too uber to be taken down by anyone unless its the Lord Savior JC himself (or acceptable equivalent).

Blaming the story is a strawman in itself being that most of the writing is a rehash of a rehash based in flights of nonsensical fancy and limited by mechanics, game balance and having to be merely satisfactory to tens of thousands of players at once.

Unless the Devs are able to update, progress and publish both current and future canon to satisfy mechanics, balance, gameplay and player aesthetics on a daily (or even a weekly) basis (while doing coding, design, promotions, PR, etc) don't expect literature level work.

My level 1 can't shrug off a punch to the face by a level 30 LB... or anything that resembles a firearm given a big enough level difference or rank discrepancy.

Game mechanics are funny that way.

Selective suspension of disbelief.

My non armor have squishies would beg to differ (at least from a RP point of view).

I mean I could say that as a 50 level Ice Dom, I should be able to pull a Neo and freeze any small rocks thrown at me; mid-arc... (ignoring the existence of big rocks thrown by Carnie dudes and the like) but the simple fact is that I can't.

My Doms and Controllers hit 50; still squishy. They unlocked their Alpha; so what... still squishy. They're squishy until I get my Void Judgement and Barrier Destiny; then they're less squishy for about 30-90 seconds.

Incarnate abilities are not an automatic 'I win' button. You're stronger than you were but you're no more a demi-god (except maybe story-wise) than you were when you IO'ed out your toons prior to unlocking any slots... you just have more tools to work with .

And the issue really isn't rocks; it's the apparent use of lowbie types to bring some too-big-for-their-britches Incarnate wannabe down. People still would've been upset if their Incarnate-ling got shot in the face with a gun and wasn't able to shrug it off (hence the Malta beef).

Some of you act like Incarnate status automatically makes you Superman. It doesn't. And even if it it did, a civvy could still come up and find a way to put him down with a lowly rock (David vs. Goliath).

Instead of selectively suspending belief to find flaw against ones own narcissism; suspend belief to imagine out how a particular scenario could actually be feasible. For me, I already have.

How does [] flying make sense when no one has even unlocked the last five trees of Incarnate power? We're technically doing more of a jog-walk. Just because you're dusting off most of the core content because of the progression you have made doesn't mean you're all that.

Just because you've made Incarnate progression doesn't mean the enemy groups that people are discounting because they've already faced and beaten them on numerous occasions aren't capable of providing further challenge. It just means that up until this point; you haven't been significant enough to be privy to the secluded halls of these groups esoteric workings. Whether by power level or by story concerns.

Rock throwing civvies got you down; so what... its a good story fit (at least for Incarnate Heroes). As an Incarnate, it's nothing for even one of you to flatten out a mob of possessed civvies... but that's not heroic at all and it goes against the entire reason you're at the TPN in the first place (hence mission failure). Tip toeing around the angry civvies means that you're going to take some rocks to the face and its not like you have a toggle for Incarnate armor that's going to keep it from making you wince at some point.

[And then there's the issue of mechanics and storytelling; it was stated from the jump that this was supposed to be a gradual progression. (Gives Devs time to create, test and release story content, player abilities and appropriate challenges, etc in such a way as to support the implied progression)

It's (sorta) the difference of having Luke Skywalker make progression towards becoming a Jedi master and just having him wake up one day and be one.

You'll eventually get new threats to work with just learn some patience.]

Redundant or not, everyone is entitled to their say and that's what this thread is asking for anyhow; redundancy.

(A prime example of why I'm against this)

There's been a few shows that'll show a glimpse into something that's happened further along into the episode; usually right before a commercial break -like NCIS. The whole premise of The Dead Zone was based on viewer-targeted fractured precog (as was That's So Raven, lol).

This is what I was thinking, plus we got that new group of upstarts on both sides (Twinshot's crew and Dr. Grave's 'cronies')

Strikeforce Moritouri being the possible exception.

There was: Reichman's Empowerment Machine, Arachnos' experiments with Trapdoor and Recluse's Web tech [Hero 1 and Excalibur?]

[What would be nice is if they made it a VIP only Origin that allowed for more freeform character creation/progression -similar to what is found in the current Incarnate system]

The Recluse angle might get a spin from Marshall Blitz's involvement.

But my first question is the timeline of this arc (relative to the Praetorian invasion and the Coming Storm)?

And my big question is how this ties into/impacts the Incarnate storyline; from Cimerora to Praetorian versions of Cole. This is, after all, an avatar of Zeus.

Which may tie into how he actually dies. For all intents and purposes, this man can fight the Hamidon to a standstill... self-sacrifice? getting his powers stripped from him and then blitted (who becomes Zeus from this?)? Or maybe he'll go all emo and off himself...

Players are getting what they want by pushing the established icons into the passenger side so they can drive; which is relevant as they outgrow the established canon in time for the Coming Storm (heck, the icons are pretty much irrelevant now)

Very curious to see how these last 3 chapters play out.

I was (a dependent) at Howard AFB in Panama when I saw this (about the same time frame I started playing D&D)

bathing scene reference... thought that might be the quote you were thinking of.

trpic?