7thCynic

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Considering I talked to, on a daily basis, people that PvP'd on Liberty since i6 all the way through the i13 beta, again I'd have to say that you're full of it.

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Well believe what you like. Youre happy doing that anyway apparently.

EDIT: That goes for both of you.

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Seeing as how there's a number of PvP SG's from Liberty that used to field several 8 man teams, I'd say you're full of it.

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Not sure to what youre referring too. PvP was dead in Liberty LOOONG before i13. Im specifically talkin abt the i12 era - and it was dead then. 8 people in RV IS unfortunately an improvement. A small one, but still.

Now if the question is did these changes to PvP get the numbers of people PvPing that they were hoping for - then thats a definite no. In fact, Id say theyre close to breaking even with those that left. But thats not to say that the changes still arent an improvement.

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In what ways is it better? What problems existed before that are now absent?

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Not that you will necessarily agree that they were probs but theres rewards now, the game is slowed down, travel suppression makes a hit and run seem foolish, I mean to me it just feels more balanced. But I can see your point abt buffs - we dont want to make buffers tougher to kill but useless @ the same time.

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Well, considering that there are fewer people PvPing now than there was pre-13, I would guess that most would disagree with you.

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Most is an iffy word. Sure those that liked it before dont like it now cuz they didnt think there was a prob in the 1st place. But really MOST didnt (and still dont) PvP because its awful.

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Ahh, so you believe it's better now that things are worse, but with no facts to back up your actual position.

Got you.

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PvP was like a turd. Anything you did to it would have been an improvement. That was my point. But otherwise, Im not gettin into that convo.

And btw, for sheets and giggles I checked out RV in Liberty and there were 8 people there - more than I was seeing just before i13 hit. So much for his numbers.

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to numbers:

population in RV on servers:
Freedom: some?
Justice: none (moved to Virtrue/Freedom)
Pinnacle: none (moved to Virtrue/Freedom)
Virtue: some
Liberty: none (moved to Virtrue/Freedom)
Guardian: none (moved to Virtrue/Freedom)
Infinity: none (moved to Virtrue/Freedom)
Protector: none (moved to Virtrue/Freedom)
Victory: none (moved to Virtrue/Freedom)
Champion: none (moved to Virtrue/Freedom)
Triumph: none (moved to Virtrue/Freedom)

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And those number are different from i12 how?

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yes we have more PvPers now! (sarcasm on)

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Shouldnt your sarcasm have been turned on BEFORE you made that statement? ...Just sayin.

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So it's better to replace something broken with something stupid and broken?

Pre-13 PvP was far from perfect, but PvP 2.0 is two steps backward and sideways.

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Now hold on. I could have almost have agreed with your prev post - 4 sec sup on buffs may be much - BUT thats under the assumption that the rest, including DR, is a general improvement.

So I would say they replaced something broken with something thats better, but still broken.

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Admit it though, if this is a failed system, I12 PvP was also a failed system.

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Not if they actually LIKED that failure. But Im with you.

To Macskull:
Pot? Kettle? Apparently youre as lost in the convo as Reiraku is. Ive been on that 'subjective' comment since page 1 and thats been my point since. Tho I dont think its that 'subjective', but of course you would never agree that - which was part of my point, etc etc.

To Darkson:
You keep spamming that question yet your bud Mac has already answered it for you. And he's on YOUR side. :P

To Ravens:
You think this is the majority? You guys just cry the loudest here, but i wouldnt say by any means majority. In fact, if you were to look at the bigger picture, at those that enjoy MMO PvP in general, Id say youre QUITE the minority. But then again, that may be just my 'subjective' opinion....or is it?

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Yes, we get it, you want people to stand and FITE LIEK A TRU WARRIER, you're one of the people PvP was changed for, gg.

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As we get you - youre one of the people that liked the turd they called PvP and cry when they finally attempt to fix it.

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Staying alive is silly, isn't it?

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Trying so hard to stay alive that you would use a power that takes you out of a fight (essentially running away) that has no real negative reprocussions other than maybe pride (self esteem) SUUUUUUUUUUUUURE is.

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If it were considered more fun now (in general) than before, why such a drop in population?

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Because those that liked crap dont like things that arent crap?

And whether you choose to believe it or not, the damage has been done. But of course you wouldnt because you say you liked it before. Though if you can for a min assume that it was bad, then you might understand how it pushed people away (with the issues Mac has said) and how hard it would be to get them to give PvP another chance.

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To be honest, I wouldn't need Hibernate if...

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This line is REAL funny! I can finish it SOOO many ways, but Ill just be nice.

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As for 2, the population difference between then and now speak for itself.

[/ QUOTE ]Negative. You see, the prob is you suggested PvP was fun - and thats pretty subjective, population or not. Especially when u consider any damage that the craptastic PvP may have caused during all the years of its existence. These changes are a very late attempt @ damage control. (Oh and btw, I have noticed MORE zone PvP now than just pre i13, so I question the population comment anywayz.)

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Maybe that'll change with future changes to PvP. But from my point of view, it's unlikely.

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And I hope for the same, altho I may be a bit more optimistic.

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No more than most of the costumes in this game.

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Well i wont disagree w/that!

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You know, I would agree if it weren't for two things.

1) Things became more unbalanced than ever.

2) Those new rules removed a lot of what made the game fun.

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And honestly, id expect youd think 1 if I knew you thought 2.

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POWERS ARE AN EXPLOIT

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Oh maybe you misunderstand. I dont think its an exploit at all. By all means keep using it. It doesnt give u any advantage, just make u look silly (in a zone).

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the "you use Hibernate!?" comment was cute, btw

[/ QUOTE ] Thank you. I have already made my stance clear on that subject: Hibernate is for (sarcasm on) winners with (sarcasm off) self-esteem issues. But lets not get into it again...

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your opinion doesn't really carry much weight with the rest of us, does it?

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The 'rest of us' being those that thought CoX PvP was any good? Well then thank the Lord for that!

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Besides, where are the new subscriptions from other MMOs that these PvP changes brought in?

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I didnt say it did. Its still has a long way to go.

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Some people didn't like the lack of reward. Some people didn't like that they had to build their character differently. Some people didn't like the unpredictability. Some people didn't like that their Superman clone could die in half a second. Some people just didn't want to PvP. Some people might've even been turned off by the people they met while PvP'ing.

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Woot! We finally agree on something! But I think that the devs know all this and the changes made have made a difference. And its not just the rewards, but the dual builds and the different rulesets (See: Superman clone could die in half a second). I dont see anything wrong a different ruleset if its to balance the ATs. And, altho I LOVE the speed of the game, it was stupid in PvP: Thus DR, travel suppression, etc.

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Meanwhile, they've lost a large number of some of the best PvPers in the game

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I suppose you dont get it because you consider yourself one and it could be considered insulting but - Whats the value in being one of the best PvPers in a game with horrible PvP? (Answer: Nuthin.)

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Instead of just fixing some things they went too far and ruined a really good pvp system.

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This is where the prob is. You thought CoX PvP was a 'really good pvp' system? Sorry, but its wasnt - and really - still isn't, but I say its better.

I understand that fans of the game got used to the way it was. And sure, thats the devs fault for taking to long to even look @ the pvp issues. Then there's that small percentage that maybe DID actually enjoy it, but bottom line: CoX PvP wasnt bringing in any subscriptions from other MMOs.

Do you really think that the reason for the small PvP minority is due to the fact that the majority hates PvP? Answer: No, they hate THIS PvP. It was bad.

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1. Why does Hibernate grey out when you use phase shift?

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You use Hibernate?!

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2. Why all this suppression?

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Why not?

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3, How about creating a zone without all these goofy changes and allow some strategy back in pvp??

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Ummm...no.

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Why would I want to take a hero & make him into a villain when I already have villains or vice versa?

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Hero Masterminds.

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Don't think that the pro-farming side is any less self-righteous.

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I think there's a definite difference between saying play the game however you want and saying the game should only be played a certain way.

Paragonwiki is your friend.

http://paragonwiki.com/

My vote is for a Super Strength / Willpower Brute. Hands down.

SS deals a great bit of damage and feels very 'super', while Willpower provides lots of survival tools that are very beginner friendly.

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My impression was that the devs look at farming and PLing the way I look at gum chewing in class.

Im not goint to say its allowed. I'll make you spit it out if I see it. But, its a waste of my time to spend all my resources trying to catch you with gum. So, what I don't see I don't know, so dont let me see.

Using the gum chewing analogy, Some of the MA farms were like a kid passing out gum to all his friends, smacking his gum as loudly as possible and then engaging in a bubble blowing contest with the rest of the class as the teacher looks on.

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Excellent analogy bud.

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I guess you really didn't get the point of the sarcasm though. I enjoy the game just as much as I always did. The PLers don't affect me at all because I don't play with them.

My main objection to this is that new players get the impression that this is the way the game is supposed to be played. They get PLed to 50, have no clue how to use their character properly, can't play through a TF or SF entirely because their massive misunderstanding of their characters causes wipe after wipe until the team finally dissolves and they finally quit when they decide they don't want to grind for IO sets and purples any more.

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I think it's you that didnt get his point. Maybe this would help understand the PL PoV; just altering your words a bit:

What if those new players... "finally quit when they decide they don't want to grind THRU BORING LVLS X-Y any more."

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AFT - Another Farming Thread.

And by that I mean - You can't eliminate it in game, you can't stop the threads here.

It's in every MMO.

Let's just keep things as is and admit it's okay. The broadcast spam has stopped. The hype is over. It's fine. Get to 50 in 4 hours. Besides the anti farming stance, there's nothing to stop it besides gutting the game and making it City of Heroes: Level 10 Forever!!!

[/ QUOTE ]Well said.