__Goldie__

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Thank you for sharing your skills.

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That's what she said.

Literally.

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remove my butt.

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Stairmaster ----->

Very nice.

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where is the "better" version?

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Clicky

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972.1 in the "better" version.

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Make that 1075.8...

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1168.4, bish!

Worst. Drama. Ever.

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I feel cheated. My SG roster never gets any drama.

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So, um...like, penguins are dumb, or something equally offensive. And Kendra Wilkinson is a skank.

I think Sorrows just likes to take 2 week vacations every month or so.

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As amusing as this may seem to my current financial situation, I am POOR.I can't even afford new clothes, much less a paid expansion.My boyfriend and I made a choice to spend 30 bucks a month so that we can enjoy this game together, even though we are flat broke, and I don't think WE should have to suffer in pvp because we lack funds.

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Nobody is taking anything away from you. If you can't, or don't want to, pay for a PvP expansion, then don't. You can still level the regular way. As I've said before, the expansion just gives options to those of us who are in the opposite situation as you...we have some extra money, but not the time to grind hundreds of hours worth of PvE content to enjoy PvP. Believe me when I tell you, my *time* is worth just as much as your *money*. With the current game structure, you have options and people like me don't.

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Plus as I mentioned, there would be people with multiple of these accounts, because hey, some people have that much money to blow on trying to kill somebody in a game world.

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What do you mean "multiple of these accounts"? They're the same $15/mo accounts that they already have. Paying for an expansion in no way affects whether someone will, or will not, maintain multiple accounts with a monthly fee attached. One has nothing to do with the other. It's a red herring argument.

Regarding your financial situation, I know what it's like to be in your shoes, and I wish you all the best in whatever you do to overcome it.

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The paid expansion.Why would we go from rewarding power gamers, to rewarding the rich!?

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Hyperbole much? We're not talking about buying a Rolls Royce here, we're talking about a $20-$30 purchase. And that has nothing to do with the cost of maintaining multiple accounts.

Rewarding the rich? That's one hell of a stretch you're making. The assertion is laughable, at best.

1. Paid PvP Expansion
2. Selectable maps
3. Inspiration Tier
4. Hero-Villain Balance
5. OAS Issues
6. Arena Organized Tournies
7. Instanced PvP Missions
8. Villain Lack of +per
9. Arena Level Issues
10. PvP and PvE Builds

I would vote for #1 a thousand times in lieu of anything else. If that's not possible, I would support any action taken to help make the level/loot grind less imposing on the one segment of the player population who is least likely to enjoy it.

If there's one thing that will drive me away from this game, it's the contstant addition of forced grinding under the guise of "content". Loot is only "optional" for non PvPers, please make it suck less for us to get it.

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...Which would be entirely valid, if that's what I was doing. Otherwise, it's just a personal attack based on your speculation. When was the last time I attacked anyone's arguments as "blatant BS" or directly challenged people to, say, bring up numbers?

I could understand you choosing that route if I'd gone there to begin with, but I didn't. S'all good though, off-topic nonetheless. Let the cage discussion continue

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Claim victimhood all you like. Calling BS on purposeful obfuscation isn't a personal attack. Pointing out that someone is consistently stating opinion as fact is not a personal attack. Not allowing someone to misrepresent your statements, or the statements of others, is not a personal attack. Asking for you to put up numbers in opposition to the ones you take exception to, is not a personal attack.

Nobody is besmirching your character or calling you names. I'm sorry if you feel otherwise. You may want to develop a thicker skin if you're going to participate in a debate in an open forum. <---Also not a personal attack, just a helpful suggestion.

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I won't bother quoting personal attacks.. again, I don't do that on the forums

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Who's personally attacking you? It's not like I said your feet stink or something. I'm just calling out your attempts to reframe the debate and misrepresent opposing arguments. Nothing personal.

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I'd honestly be disappointed if this became a case of the outspoken minority getting some change as a result of, as stated before, a knee-jerk reaction to being caged.

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You stating that your opinion is in the majority is even shakier than the pseudo-polling Putz did. At least she attempted to solicit feedback and track numbers. You are just stating opinion as fact and calling it a day. What numbers do you have to back up your assertion?

Knee-jerk? Caging has been around for 2+ years, you can hardly call the situation "knee-jerk".

I've already said what I wanted to say regarding the issue, I'm just calling you on your blatant BS tactics since you seem to want to influence the debate with nothing more than that.

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Whining has been around since the beginning of mankind and some of you have it down to a science .

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My dad can beat up your dad.

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I'd honestly be disappointed if this became a case of the outspoken minority getting some change as a result of, as stated before, a knee-jerk reaction to being caged.

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You stating that your opinion is in the majority is even shakier than the pseudo-polling Putz did. At least she attempted to solicit feedback and track numbers. You are just stating opinion as fact and calling it a day. What numbers do you have to back up your assertion?

Knee-jerk? Caging has been around for 2+ years, you can hardly call the situation "knee-jerk".

I've already said what I wanted to say regarding the issue, I'm just calling you on your blatant BS tactics since you seem to want to influence the debate with nothing more than that.

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I still havent seen the following question answered. Why should people who use the power on live for whatever reason have to worry about cage changes/suppression when theirs at tops 3-4 groups who pvp on test who are so called "abusing it". Why have the Devs spend time to change a power to compensate for the playstyle of a group of under 50 players?

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You're starting to sound like the PvEers who say "Why should the Devs spend any time on PvP when only 1-2% of the populations even participates in it".

Let's just scrap the whole damn thing and go back to farming Dreck and running Shard TFs since nobody really PvPs anyway, right?

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Its the truth though Goldie, what was the last real addition to pvp, lol the Cage map. So now you want Dev attention for a power which affects a miniscule part of pvpers, when pvpers are already a small percentage of paying customers. Its not like we are talking about arena map selection which is nothing but a positive additon, your talking about altering a power which would affect the survivability of a larger number of pvpers. The "bug" portion of it has already been fixed, be thankful for that. The Dev's trying to add cage suppression or diminishing returns probably would set Issue 12 back 2 months.

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I understand where you're coming from. But keep in mind that it's not like anyone is going to the Devs and saying "Change cage plz". It's just one item on really long list of things to look at. If they decide it's not worth the time or effort, so be it.

Personally, I think the whole concept of caging is a piss poor game mechanic. I can't think of another game that allows you to essentially tell another person, "You don't get to play", at an auto-aimed push of a button. I think it's cheesy as all hell and doesn't belong in a competitive game. But that's just my opinion.

When the community policed itself and multiple cage teams were frowned upon, it wasn't that big a deal. But when you start bringing in 2-4 sonics and multiple gravs, where does it end? In a post-veng stacking world, Sonics bring enough to the table to warrant their place in the lineup even without the ability to perma-cage...so I think the "diminishing returns" thing is a little played out. Their buffs and debuffs are very nice to have around.

If the community or the devs decide that they like things the way they are, that's fine. I've said my piece and will keep on playing. No harm, no foul for asking for what you want.

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...doesn't seem to hold any weight.

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You know, you keep saying this, so I have to ask, are you the sole determiner of arguments that hold weight?

Because from where I'm sitting, all I see is a guy desperately trying to hold on to a power that he knows good and well is overperforming by belittling and dismissing anyone who doesn't agree with him.

Despite your verbose replies, your answers essentially boil down to "l2p n00b", and I find that a bit insulting given the community you're dealing with here.

There's no objective reason for cages to be the only powers in the game that cannot be reactively countered. If you think there is, I'm interested to hear why. So far, all I've heard is "because it'll make my powers suck and I don't want that". Which, in my book, "doesn't seem to hold any weight".

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I still havent seen the following question answered. Why should people who use the power on live for whatever reason have to worry about cage changes/suppression when theirs at tops 3-4 groups who pvp on test who are so called "abusing it". Why have the Devs spend time to change a power to compensate for the playstyle of a group of under 50 players?

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You're starting to sound like the PvEers who say "Why should the Devs spend any time on PvP when only 1-2% of the populations even participates in it".

Let's just scrap the whole damn thing and go back to farming Dreck and running Shard TFs since nobody really PvPs anyway, right?

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I don't think there are even 7 sonics on Guardian. In 10 months, I've never teamed with one.

There is nothing wrong with sonic cage. Is it fun to be repeatedly ASd by waves of Stalkers? I like being able to cage a vill when I need to. It doesn't last as long as it takes to die, hosp, heal, and rejoin the battle.

There are always going to be situations in PvP that are not as fun as we would like. When it stops being fun, go to another zone or server. Thats why we have choices.

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The discussion is centering more around arena 8v8s than zone pvp. I don't think anyone really cares about sonics in zones, although I do know of one evil [censored] on Victory who will perma cage you until you give up and leave the zone. You know who you are *cough*W-Des*cough* .

When it was a single cager with a 30 sec cage taking one guy out of a match, yeah, it sucked, but it wasn't that big a deal. But now that we're seeing 2-4 sonics + grav cages on a single team, is nobody else seeing that it might start getting out of hand in the near future?

<rolls eyes> Yeah, that's exactly it. Good job at following the conversation up to this point.

Yes, I'm sure everyone will learn to adapt to the sudden proliferation of caging. So your advice to "change up your team composition" will result in everyone bringing storms. So yay, cage heavy sonic and grav teams vs storms every match. How exciting.

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If that's what would honestly satisfy the people concerned with the way cages work now, then I don't see why not. It's extreme enough to the point where either cage targets would neuter their own damage resistance (fewer oranges) and/or damage (fewer reds), or accept being caged.


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I think options are all anyone is looking for. If the option to reactively counter a cage is a sub-optimal insp loadout, then I'd take that option if the circumstances required it.

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..The last sentence does answer "yes" to whether or not there are counters to being caged.

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Too bad that's not the question I asked. I said "directly" and/or "reactively". To which the answer is "no". You keep re-phrasing my question to give the answer you want to give instead of answering the question honestly. That's a very old and cheap debate tactic.

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...Seriously, I don't do the whole "personal attack on the forums" thing, and I'm not trying to act or fool or be high and mighty. I'm not sitting here with a thesaurus, I'm typing how I usually type when I make an argument. Please don't let things devolve to a debate over my word choice.

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Then you may want to choose your words a little more carefully to avoid the seeming condescention. You appear to have a fairly firm grasp of the English language, so one might assume that you are intentionally conveying that tone. If you say you're not, I'll take you at face value.

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It'd be terrible if a single break free freed you from cage... that would honestly neuter the power.

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unfortunately like most other forms of mez in the game

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Then make it 3-4 BFs. Whatever. Some way to react to being caged > no way to react to being caged.

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...Correct, I didn't answer your question; I usually don't answer questions based on faulty assumptions.

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What faulty assumption, exactly?

Are you saying a *direct* counter to cage exists? Or even a way to *react* to the cage effect? And if not, then why should it stay that way when every other power in the game has a way to directly and/or reactively counter it?

Stop blowing smoke and answer the question. (and stop with the high and mighty act, you're not fooling anyone, and it's assinine). Why should cage be unique, in your opinion. I don't think you have a good answer, so you keep posting paragraph upon paragraph of nothing to sidetrack the issue.

Again, for the cheap seats, I'm not asking that cages be changed in any way. Leave the power as is. But give us some way, however obscure, to *REACT* to it, not generically *AVOID* it. Are you understanding me yet?

lol, so good.